When and Which Course Piqued Interest in Architecture

[Ira Fishman]

I am 60 years old.  Over many years of playing (with a long hiatus for raising kids), I played some very good courses: Bedford Springs, Yale, Cog Hill 4, Glen View, Cascades, Old White, Blackwolf Run River, Broadmoor, Knollwood, Burning Tree, Golden Horseshoe, Congressional, Red Sky Norman, and even PH2 (before the restoration).  I liked them all for a variety of reasons, but never really thought about it from the perspective of golf course architecture--that is why I liked them and why I liked some more than others.


Long story short, back to back trips within the last 10 years led me to care in a real way about architecture.  First, playing Pine Needles and Mid Pines several times in a row.  Second, going to Ireland where we did the classic American tour:  Old Head, Waterville, Ballybunion, Doonbeg, and Lahinch.  When I immediately realized why I though far less of  Old Head even though I had not played the others yet and when I fell in love with Lahinch, I also realized that I was "hooked" on golf course architecture.


And for you?


Ira

[Joe Hancock]

Ira,


This is always a good topic for me as I continue to want and need to learn more.


I was fortunate to have a push from Mike DeVries, and a subsequent invitation from Paul Daley to write a chapter for one of Paul’s “Golf Architecture” volumns to discuss this topic. I wrote about my experience of learning about architecture first at Grand Island Golf Course, which, sadly, no longer exists. It really revolved around maintenence practices and the relationship to design. I was learning a lot at a young age without realizing it. Peter Pallotta helped me corale my thoughts for that chapter, I believe it was in volumn 5.


After many years as a golf superintendent, I really got hunger about architecture when I was a construction superintendent....my second gig as susch was on a new course designed by Bruce Matthews III, and he was a gracious teacher and tolerated a lot of questions I asked. Then I hooked up with Mike DeVries, who put me in the seat of a machine and tolerated a lot more questions....and it continues! So the Mines GC in Grand Rapids, MI was the real eye opener for me, for it was there that I was really pushed by Mike to keep learning.....and it continues on to this day.

[Pete_Pittock]

I drew course routings in el-hi. My father got the first World Atlas of Golf. I even played Pebble Beach. But the course that pushed me over the top was North Berwick.

[Brian Ross]

For me, it was Holston Hills. I grew up playing competitively in the summers in southwest Virginia/northeast Tennessee. The first time I played Holston Hills in a tournament, I knew there was just something different about it compared to all the other courses I played regularly and I wanted to know why. I started studying routings, which led to drawing my own, and it just all kind of went from there.

[Tim Passalacqua]

 12 years ago at Rustic Canyon. I was wondering why this course was so much fun and so good.

[Laz Versalles]

First round at the Valley Club of Montecito. It really got me thinking. Next thing you know I was buying books on design.

[James Brown]

I am 60 years old.  Over many years of playing (with a long hiatus for raising kids), I played some very good courses: Bedford Springs, Yale, Cog Hill 4, Glen View, Cascades, Old White, Blackwolf Run River, Broadmoor, Knollwood, Burning Tree, Golden Horseshoe, Congressional, Red Sky Norman, and even PH2 (before the restoration).  I liked them all for a variety of reasons, but never really thought about it from the perspective of golf course architecture--that is why I liked them and why I liked some more than others.


Long story short, back to back trips within the last 10 years led me to care in a real way about architecture.  First, playing Pine Needles and Mid Pines several times in a row.  Second, going to Ireland where we did the classic American tour:  Old Head, Waterville, Ballybunion, Doonbeg, and Lahinch.  When I immediately realized why I though far less of  Old Head even though I had not played the others yet and when I fell in love with Lahinch, I also realized that I was "hooked" on golf course architecture.


And for you?


Ira

Similar experience 10 years ago on a buddies trip playing Lahinch, Ballybunion, and Old Head and wondering why Old Head was pretty but not much of a golf course. 

[Tom_Doak]

I was precocious.  The second course I ever saw was a brand-new Harbour Town, when I was ten years old.  They had a little booklet written by Charles Price that explained the design of each hole, in 2-3 sentences.  I was fascinated right off the bat.

[Terry Lavin]

Olympia Fields North in 2001 as best I recall. Played with Mike Keiser, Rick Holland and Ran Morrissett. I had studied the subject a little bit, did some greens committee time and was getting ready for the US Open three years later, but walking and playing with those three on a course I thought I was familiar with was a bit of an eye opener.

[Mark_Fine]

In the early 80's a business colleague took me to play a round of golf on what I first described as ‘a browned out lunar landscape’.  He told me I was playing the famous championship layout named Royal Liverpool. By the end of the round I had fallen in love with links golf and golf architecture in general and my perception of courses has never been the same. 

[Steve Burrows]

I took a position as a Senior Agronomist (Assistant-in-Training) at Riviera County Club.  I had an opportunity on a daily basis to experience one of the best designed (and up to that point in architectural history, one of the most deliberately engineered) golf courses in America.  Some days, during the performance of my actual duties, I would take a sand wedge or a putter around with me and play various shots around the greens.  Finding particular spots where a ball would feed down towards the ocean even in places that didn't appear to be falling in that direction, for example, was fascinating.  Other times I would just walk the property at twilight when no one was around, trying to "listen" to the course.  It wasn't exactly a "Field of Dreams" scenario, so I don't know if I ever actually "heard" anything, but the sum of these experiences was an informal, first-hand education in golf course design that greatly impacted my desire to learn more.

[Adam T]

I was 16 years old when I first played Shennecossett Golf Course in Groton, CT. It was probably about my ~30th course played at that point in time. My close friend and I were fortunate enough to have a senior member paired with us who gave us tactical tips throughout the day, and pointed out the trademark Donald Ross features. They have a wonderful photo tour on their website: http://www.groton-ct.gov/depts/parksrec/shenny/shenny_map.asp. My favorite holes are 3, 4, and 14.

Like many of the replies above, "Shenny" gave me a better sense of appreciation for strategic, fun, well-planned architecture as I continued on my golf journey. My other pivotal moments came when I started to follow this site 6 years ago, and when I watched the "Discovering Donald Ross Film" a few years ago...I listen to it regularly for background noise at work: http://www.donaldrossfilm.com/.

[Peter Pallotta]

Steve - that's a neat story, and if you don't mind sharing I'd love to know where a guy goes from there, both literally (i.e. your next professional gig) and figuratively (i.e. what architecture can match Riviera for you)

For me, it wasn't a course but an experience. My first (non factory) summer job, as a teenager, at a sprawling public course in Toronto's east end. By the middle of the summer, they had me mowing greens and cutting pins. At that point in my life, I'd only played golf - there, after work - a grand total of maybe 3 times, and (aside for a dozen+ rounds over the next 15 years) wouldn't take up it again until my 30s. But I already liked reading about the greats and watching the game on tv, and found that I must've absorbed more about golf and its courses than I realized. Not to say I did a great job cutting pins/hole locations, but I did try:

I would look back from the green and see a bunker on the right side of the fairway, and, knowing that golfers would get scared and try to avoid it and land on the left side, I'd cut the pin on that same left side so they wouldn't have a good angle in. The next day, I'd put it on the other/right side, but would cut it as close to the edge of the green as I could (I think the boss told me no less than 5 big steps/paces, IIRC.) Or on Par 5s, knowing already that golfers all loved to try for the green in two, I'd often put the pin right near the front of the green, so that a long shot in wouldn't be able to stop too close to the hole.

It was only years and years later that I realized I was probably contributing to a whole bunch of 5+ hour rounds, and to some angry golfers! I didn't even know there was such a thing as 'penal architecture' - but I guess all those major championships I watched on tv must've influenced me.


 

[Ally Mcintosh]

I just loved different courses from the go. I used to travel on week long golf trips with family friends to the Moray coast and to Crail. I've still got a whole bunch of imaginary routings from my early teens. The first book I remember loving about courses was the first edition of Nick Edmund's Following The Fairways. Also fascinated by the early Golf World course rankings.


Then - for some reason - I chose an engineering path in university and put it on the back burner. Around that time, I also got fascinated by more American style designs that were novelty in the U.K. Despite growing up on Royal Aberdeen and Hazlehead, I joined the Newmachar course, watching it being constructed.


There was a lot less focus on architects in the U.K. than in the States and at that time, there didn't seem an obvious "in" unless you'd won a couple of Majors. Kept on thinking about it over the years until I eventually acted by doing the EIGCA diploma.


By then, a steady diet of links and history books had set me back on the right path.

[Rich Goodale]

Turnberry in the early Spring of 1978.  My first links course and it blew me away, literally and figuratively.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I used my time in High School Latin to draw golf holes and routings. I would draw a hole then add bunkers, change the shape of the green, trees in various positions, length, and differing terrain. At the time I had played only about a dozen different courses. We belonged to a club that had 36 holes, but I had favorite nines and holes. I tried to figure out why one nine appealed to me more than another. It was risk and reward. Still haven't changed my mind.

[Thomas Dai]

Difficult to put any specifics on it except to say I started doing course plans and routings from around the age of 11. When I heard not that long after that the pros did yardage books I started to make my own as well. All the rest has morphed from there including picking up books etc as I’ve gone along.
Atb

[mike_malone]

  I grew up (60’s) on DuPont Country Club which had three regular courses and one executive course. The DuPont course had bland greens ( Lester George solved that problem nicely) and average terrain throughout. My father called The Nemours course across the street “sporty” which helped me to look for differences. It wasn’t until my college years that I played The Louviers course often since it was 17 miles away near the Univ of Delaware.


I always loved the stretch of 4 5 6 At Nemours which were all short par fours but with interesting features on each. 4 had a building to the right of the landing area and a contoured green. 5 had a “snake pit” which was really just a creek with much underbrush and a wonderfully angled stonewall border. It was my first cape. 6 was under 300 yards with a narrow landing area and a cleft in the green, something I have never seen since. This began my architecture interest since Nemours was more fun than DuPont.


But when I went to the U of D (70’s) I really developed my interest as I played a Gordon course. I think I even wondered “ who designed this?”. The terrain was wild.


The final nail was seeing the 1926 photos of Rolling Green in 1998 as the club voted on Hanse’s Master Plan. I said “ I want that course!” 


We almost have it and our new gcs is the avid student we need to complete the effort!

[JJShanley]

I played Camargo in July 2014, the Saturday of the Open Championship.  I recall thinking that it had enormous fairways as I had lunch on the patio, but over that afternoon I encountered some of the most cerebral golf I had faced to date.  It also came at a time when I wondered whether to focus on golf seriously.  I had barely played since September 2012 when I broke my left hand playing goalkeeper.  I played decently that day, which helped convinced me to begin playing regularly again, but the whole experience prompted me to understand architecture as more than simply design.  Camargo's story also prompted an interest, not at all yet realized due to schoolwork, in the introduction of golf from Scotland to North America.

[MLevesque]

The genesis of my interest in golf architecture was my first caddying loop at Yale during a Connecticut Open in the 1980's.  When I saw the 9th hole 235 yard par 3 Biarritz I was hooked.  Thank you Macdonald and Raynor!

[Jim Tang]

I had grown up in Illinois playing mostly tree lined, over watered, green public golf courses.  At that point, playing Blackwolf Run (which I still love, btw), Whistling Straits and Weaver Ridge was as good as it could get.


My first round on Pacific Dunes, right after it opened, altered my universe.  The turf was completely different than anything I had ever experienced.  The movement of the land and the contouring of the greens were foreign to me.  Playing the ball along the ground and watching it bounce across the turf was intoxicating.  It was the most fun I had ever had on a golf course.


My education continued years later with a day spent at Kingsley Club.  The architecture was bold, aggressive, on the edge.  The architecture made golf fun.

[jeffwarne]

Augusta CC and growing up attending The Masters
Built an 18 hole, 7 green course in my backyard complete with hard packed smooth dirt greens, artificial streams from long lost formal garden irrigation,bunkers.

Later influences-links travel

Positive and negative events can affect one's tastes/interest

[Peter Pallotta]

J - if I'm thinking about what you were thinking about, remember: probably no one who might've ever chased you off for sneaking onto a very exclusive course by jumping a wire fence and then hitting a quick shot to the 12th green is likely still around there 40 years later!
 

[David Wuthrich]

First to get me thinking - Harbour Town
US course to push me over the edge - NGLA
World course to push me over the edge - Lahinch

[A.G._Crockett]

1. I played a Joe Lee course in the mountains of north Georgia called Bent Tree, which I really liked and which was a lovely walk, and l wondered how in the heck he had seen a walkable golf course there.

2. I played the Ocean Course and was just blown away by what Pete Dye had done there; the brilliance was obvious even to someone who know less than zero.

4. I played UNC Finley after Tom Fazio had, for $8m, completely blown up and then redesigned the old George Cobb layout that I had dearly, dearly loved.  I was SO excited before I played, and then completely disappointed when I did, and wondered what had gone wrong.  (I've mostly warmed to, and play most of my golf at, the "new" Finley, but still cherish my memories of the old course.)

Three dominoes, and here I am.