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Buck Wolter

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The Yolk with Doak
« on: December 31, 2017, 09:17:18 AM »
Andy Johnson who's a sometimes contributor here is doing as much as anyone to get more people to think abut Golf Course Architecture through his Fried Egg podcast and Social Media presence. Sweetens Cove in particular has become a must see through Andy spreading the word to others like the No Laying Up crew who have caught religion (the recent No Laying Up Sweetens Cove podcast is worth listening to).


He's got a new interview series with Tom that I highly recommend subscribing to. Andy has come along ways with his podcast style (and sound quality) and I think Tom is terrific in this format with some very interesting answers and he doesn't need much prompting to give some great insight into his thoughts and process. (There are many other good individual podcasts with other architects as well).


http://www.friedegg.co/tom-doak-podcast/
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 10:03:03 AM »
Thanks Buck!  We are still getting our game down on the podcasts, but I think the next couple in the bin are pretty good.


The main reason I decided to pursue this was the reaction to the podcast I did with Andy last summer.  Several people said they were surprised to hear me in person -- in terms of how much I laughed, and my sense of humor.  I would have thought with all the writing I've done here, people would get that side of me, but I guess I am still fighting a different perception because The Confidential Guide is so critical [and possibly because I am so misrepresented by a few people in the industry].


The odd part of that is that the original Confidential Guide was much funnier, but I've had to self-censor future editions because it was so politically incorrect.

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 12:39:52 PM »
Thanks for posting. Just signed up for the newsletter.
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Stephen Britton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2017, 03:59:01 PM »
Tom, the podcasts are great, I hope you and Andy continue with them and more architects do the same.


The best way it was explained to me was, if you could listen to a recording of Alister MacKenzie, Donald Ross, A.W. Tillinghast, Seth Raynor or C.B. McDonald talking about architecture, their own designs and their philosophies would you like to listen? The answer would be hell yes!
"The chief object of every golf architect or greenkeeper worth his salt is to imitate the beauties of nature so closely as to make his work indistinguishable from nature itself" Alister MacKenzie...

Jeff Shelman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2017, 04:19:28 PM »
I agree that Andy has done a nice job. Interviews on a regular basis with architects and now this series with Tom.


It is good stuff.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2017, 04:45:43 PM »
I listened to the first Yolk with Doak episode last weekend while driving home from pheasant hunting in Southwest Minnesota and I enjoyed it immensely.


I have listened to most of Andys podcasts with other architects and they are very good (I really liked the Foster, Mingay, and Franz editions).


But Tom's podcast is on another level. Truely awesome and very educational. We forget how lucky we are to have Tom participate here. And as another poster said how could anyone who considers themselves students of GCA wouldn't want to sit back and listen to Tom talk about architecture.


I think it would be awesome to have one centered around a major. How cool would be to have Tom talking about each hole at Augusta or wherever that major is that week.


It's great stuff, and I hope there are many more to come.
H.P.S.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 04:52:15 PM »

I think it would be awesome to have one centered around a major. How cool would be to have Tom talking about each hole at Augusta or wherever that major is that week.



Pat:


I know Andy wants to do a lot of that.  We will probably pick and choose our spots, because I'm aware that nearly any course that hosts a major has a consultant architect involved, and I could wind up disagreeing with them directly ... if we skip one, that's probably why  ;)


The next ones we've tackled concern Waialae [which will go live the week of the tournament] and Streamsong.

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 04:56:49 PM »
If you guys don’t know, Andy is also a very fine player and qualified for the Mid-Am at Stonewall Orchard.


Helluva looper, too...;-)

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2018, 01:42:41 PM »
Tom,


I listened to part 1 and thought there was some interesting questions asked and answered.  I have a follow up question on Routing.  What kinds of things can and can't be effectively taught when it comes to routing a course?


For example, in my profession, software quality assurance.  There are things you can teach like different types of testing techniques, automation, how to use testing tools, etc.But then are things like being meticulous, knowing how to prioritize potential problem areas, and knowing where your time is best spent that are hard to effectively teach someone.

As one who always had a pipe dream to build/design my own course, (which I know now i never would, even if I had the resources), can you elaborate on this?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2018, 04:37:45 PM »
Tom,

I listened to part 1 and thought there was some interesting questions asked and answered.  I have a follow up question on Routing.  What kinds of things can and can't be effectively taught when it comes to routing a course?



Kalen:


I had exactly two hours of training from Pete Dye on how to route a course.  It consisted of showing me the plan for The Honors Course, and how he had played most of the long holes across the side of the hill, locating the tees and greens and landing areas on the ridges and hitting over the valleys as they drained down the hill.


The rest, I've had to feel out by thinking through the golf courses I know, and by practicing on my own projects.  Getting one's hands on the routings [over topo maps] of famous courses is also quite helpful if you can manage it, so as to understand how they put the puzzle together and what are the "rules" that most great courses follow ... like, how far uphill is too far for one shot, or how much sideslope can you have in a fairway landing area?  Lots of architects can tell you rules on those things, but maps of Pasatiempo and Merion show you that many of their rules are breakable.


I have never tried to teach any of my associates or interns too much about routing, because I assume they'll understand better from trial and error and observation.  I don't want to give them a bunch of my own silly rules!  I think the main skill that's hard to teach is the ability to think in 3-D and to visualize from a topo map.  Routings tend to fail due to visibility issues, or getting stuck in a difficult corner with no good way out; the solution is usually to avoid those corners altogether.


The other part of it is understanding which sorts of things can be fixed satisfactorily with earthmoving, and which cannot.  If you've got enough money you can always grade something until it sort of works, but there are lots of situations where you will never get it to look right, because of how it has to tie back into the existing ground. 

Ryan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2018, 07:53:36 PM »
I listened to both 1 and 2 in the car and couldn't get enough.  I was late for a conference call because I couldn't stop listening.  Can't wait for the next 2.  Thanks to both of you.

Andy Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2018, 11:22:02 PM »
Thank you - glad to hear everyone enjoys the podcast. I think the pods with Tom should only get better - looking forward to getting the next two out in the coming weeks.


The next podcast on Waialae will be posted on next Monday and then the Streamsong podcast will go up on 1/22.


Never hesitate to send me feedback good & bad, topic ideas, etc.


Happy New Year.








Cal Seifert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2018, 12:10:23 AM »
Tom and Andy,


Thank you for taking the time to do this, it will help make tomorrow's flight more enjoyable.  I am itching to get out to sweetens.  I will be bringing people with me from Atlanta and hoping to show them the light.

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2018, 03:07:24 AM »
Many thanks to Andy, Tom and Buck


Andy's a great and knowledgeable interviewer and Tom D is at his very best.  The link from Buck was a hard to beat post of 2018.  Let's all promise to raise our game this year.  We need far more wheat and far less chaff.


Merry Chirstmas to all


Rich




Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2019, 01:22:24 PM »

I listened to episode 14 on the Confidential Guide Volume 5 today. I wish Tom would have taken a camera crew on his India trip -- sounds like it would have made a great 'Parts Unknown' style TV show.



Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2019, 02:23:56 PM »
Guess I must have missed this thread the first time around.
There are a few different podcasts hosted by various hosts with different guests that I’ve listened along to that have been both educational and insightful and as is muted somewhere above ought to provide a source of historical material for future historians and study as well. Nice to hear the guests voices, terms used, expressions and language too.
Atb



PS - There’s a rather nice phrase in a post above .... “the ability to think in 3-D”. :)


PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2019, 03:35:26 PM »
I listened to the most recent episode this morning. It was very good and I agree with Buck that this travels around India were very interesting.


The best Yolk with Doak's to me are the one's where they aren't talking about a particular project (i.e.-Streamsong). The best one to me was the one about routings. To me, I would love episodes on different general topics...such as "what makes a great par-3?" What makes this XYZ architect so great? What is the best set of greens in the world? Etc... To me its most enjoyable listening to Mr. Doak's stream of consciousness.
H.P.S.

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2019, 04:30:41 PM »
Was fortunate get to walk Pine Needles last week with Andy and Kyle Franz, I should have been taping the back and forth conversation for a podcast. While Andy did interview Kyle in one of the early podcasts, this one for spontaneity and humor would have topped the charts. It didn't hurt that we played with Joe Zwickl of the Burning Cart Society (who knew?).
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2019, 10:31:59 PM »
Burning Cart Society. Great.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2019, 10:20:17 PM »
I listened to the most recent episode this morning. It was very good and I agree with Buck that this travels around India were very interesting.


The best Yolk with Doak's to me are the one's where they aren't talking about a particular project (i.e.-Streamsong). The best one to me was the one about routings. To me, I would love episodes on different general topics...such as "what makes a great par-3?" What makes this XYZ architect so great? What is the best set of greens in the world? Etc... To me its most enjoyable listening to Mr. Doak's stream of consciousness.


Everything I do is stream of consciousness; I don’t see the questions in advance, and though I see the topics I never write down talking points we should get to.


Your feedback on the project-oriented episodes is interesting.  I think Andy likes those the most, because we can go deeper on a particular course than the magazines or Golf Channel ever would.


I can’t imagine trying to take a camera crew with us in India and Sri Lanka.  Doing video out on the course is way more tedious than you imagine - lots of re-takes and setup.  It is slow as hell and very hard to do anything spontaneous, though really good editing can hide that from viewers.  It might have raised a lot of eyebrows, but it would have been way less fun of a trip!

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2019, 12:05:22 PM »
I listened to the episode about The Loop last night. Terrific, lots of fun, really informative. Tom's passion and zeal come across more in this setting than, say, an interview on Golf Channel, where he is a little more reserved, a little more professorial. Both sides are informative, but I get the feeling the podcast is more the real Tom.


I'm disappointed in myself that I haven't met Tom yet, but hopefully that will change in the not too distant future. In the meantime, the podcasts are great.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2019, 02:50:20 PM »
I listened to the episode about The Loop last night. Terrific, lots of fun, really informative. Tom's passion and zeal come across more in this setting than, say, an interview on Golf Channel, where he is a little more reserved, a little more professorial. Both sides are informative, but I get the feeling the podcast is more the real Tom.


Different hosts!  I don't feel like Andy is trying to psychoanalyze me, or discredit me, so I'm much more relaxed.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2019, 02:58:55 PM »
I wish Andy would adjust the volume levels. The introduction is way too loud, like rip the headphones off loud, in comparison to the voices during the discussion.
Terrific content though. :)

Atb

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2019, 03:46:28 PM »
I listened to the episode about The Loop last night. Terrific, lots of fun, really informative. Tom's passion and zeal come across more in this setting than, say, an interview on Golf Channel, where he is a little more reserved, a little more professorial. Both sides are informative, but I get the feeling the podcast is more the real Tom.


Different hosts!  I don't feel like Andy is trying to psychoanalyze me, or discredit me, so I'm much more relaxed.


So my guess wasn't far off. :)


I haven't had contact with old school media - print, radio, TV - in a long long time, probably closing in on 20 years. And I have no experience with new media - podcasts, e-zines, etc. But I do recall that the handful of interactions with old school were kind of weird; each time, I was not quoted or portrayed accurately. I'm not complaining, they generally made me sound better than the real me, but it was a little disconcerting. I think of those times often when I read or hear of something someone supposedly said to the media.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Yolk with Doak
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2019, 04:39:30 PM »


 I do recall that the handful of interactions with old school were kind of weird; each time, I was not quoted or portrayed accurately. I'm not complaining, they generally made me sound better than the real me, but it was a little disconcerting. I think of those times often when I read or hear of something someone supposedly said to the media.


I am amazed how often I've been misquoted in print, or someone just puts words in my mouth, or borrows something from a previous interview, out of context.  I try to do most interviews by email now, so that I will have an exact record of what I said.