News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« on: December 29, 2017, 12:16:07 PM »
I last did a serious list like this for Ran's 2013 interview.  There is a considerable change over 4.5 years. 

http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/sean-arble-2/

St Enodoc
Royal Worlington
Kington
Perranporth
Welshpool
North Berwick
Elie
Goswick
Cavendish
Pennard
Royal Dornoch
Cruden Bay
Woking
Corballis Links
Southerndown
Reddish Vale
Sutton Coldfield Winter Course
Reigate Heath
TOC
Rye
Cleeve Cloud
Ganton
Leckford Old
Silloth on Solway
Cumberwell Park Orange 9
Aberdovey
Princes
Minchinhampton Old Course
Whittington Heath
Liphook
RAC Old Course
Oxford
Castle Stuart
Alwoodley
Hunstanton
Brancaster
Saunton East
Huntercombe
Burnham & Berrow Channel
Northamptonshire Co
Addington
Edgbaston
Harlech
Ballybunion Cashen
Portrush Valley Links
Carnoustie Burnside
Formby Ladies
Harborne
Hockley
Strandhill

OBSERVATIONS

1. I am digging 9 holers more and more.

2. My patience with the cost and difficulty of championship golf is nearly exhausted.

3. I am going to miss Whittington Heath...I dread to see the new version when the train comes through.

4. There is only one folly course on the list...Ballybunion Cashen.

5. I am surprised by how many heavy soil courses make the list.

6. This list is very different to my Best 50...more different than I expected.

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 03:33:44 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 01:57:21 PM »
1. I am digging 9 holers more and more.
2. My patience with the cost and difficulty of championship golf is nearly exhausted.
Nicely put.
Atb

John Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 03:13:14 PM »

Thank you for this Sean.  Your reviews are much more helpful in guiding my course choice than Top 100 lists but the ranked tiers, plus the stars, plus the favorites have me a bit confused. So I combined the best and favorites lists and found 15 courses on both.
Some of the usual (excellent) suspects here but to me the sleeper is the Royal Worlington, Brancaster, Hunstanton trio. Not regular US golf destinations but the three together could be an interesting add on to a London trip. Opinions needed from the UK contingent if this is practical.
name   Tier    rating
TOC      2    3*
North Berwick    2    2*
Castle Stuart    2    1*
Rye      2    1*
Ganton      3    2*
St Enodoc    3    2*
Cruden Bay    3    1*
Royal Dornoch    3    1*
Royal Worlington    3    1*
Woking      3    1*
Alwoodley      4    1*
Brancaster      4    1*
Hunstanton      4    1*
Pennard      4    1*
Saunton East    4    1*
I love GCA!

Richard Fisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 05:24:06 PM »
John

I am a bit of a cracked record about this on GCA, but it always takes a lot longer to get around the UK (by road), and especially in the crowded south-east/London area, than visitors expect. Both Hunstanton and Brancaster can be (at least) four hours' drive from central London and Worlington perhaps two and a half, of which getting out of London will be (potentially) at least an hour, depending on when you choose to travel. Of course if you head out late in the evening these times will be reduced. Nonetheless this is by way of saying that an East Anglian trip should ideally stand on its own, and not really as an annexe to a London-based outing.

London to Worlington to Hunstanton to Brancaster, with Sheringham (coastal) or King's Lynn (wooded) or Thetford (heath/woodland) or Flempton (fun heathy nine holes not that far from Worlington) as an additional stop if another venue is required, is a classic golfers' route.

London to Ipswich (Purdis Heath) to Woodbridge to Aldeburgh and Thorpeness is another excellent East Anglian itinerary, more predominantly heathland but close to the sea, this time a bit further south in Suffolk (and thus a bit closer to the capital).

One thing to emphasise is that several of these clubs (and especially Worlington, Brancaster and Aldeburgh) are basically two-ball clubs, with a strong tradition of foursomes golf, and so you do need to plan any visits accordingly.

Overall though it's a terrific part of the UK for golf, much more visited ( I suspect) by English club golfers than you might discern from other sources, with lots of fun pubs and places to stay (to that extent rather like the Bournemouth area, a classic location for English-golf-club-based trips). And I have to disagree a teeny bit with my friend Sean with my own East Anglian ranking, which remains Brancaster (1), Worlington (2) Hunstanton and Aldeburgh (=3), and Woodbridge a very close fifth behind - with 'fun' and 'quality' in this case synonymous.


Hope this helps!

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 07:40:27 PM »
Sean,

As always, much to consider ! Perhaps nothing more so than it is not the courses that have changed so much as the reviewer. All to the better.  :)

Hope you are well and my best to you in this season,
Mark
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 08:00:02 PM »
Happy New Year to you as well mark.

John M

I see it a bit different than Richard.  If you make the time (probably 3 nights/4 days...it is a lovely area near the coast) your trio are easily done in combo trip to London.  If you are hoping to zip up there and cover 3 courses in 2 days, it isn't what I would call ideal holiday relaxation. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 11:00:32 AM »
John

I am a bit of a cracked record about this on GCA, but it always takes a lot longer to get around the UK (by road), and especially in the crowded south-east/London area, than visitors expect. Both Hunstanton and Brancaster can be (at least) four hours' drive from central London and Worlington perhaps two and a half, of which getting out of London will be (potentially) at least an hour, depending on when you choose to travel. Of course if you head out late in the evening these times will be reduced. Nonetheless this is by way of saying that an East Anglian trip should ideally stand on its own, and not really as an annexe to a London-based outing.




London to Worlington to Hunstanton to Brancaster, with Sheringham (coastal) or King's Lynn (wooded) or Thetford (heath/woodland) or Flempton (fun heathy nine holes not that far from Worlington) as an additional stop if another venue is required, is a classic golfers' route.

London to Ipswich (Purdis Heath) to Woodbridge to Aldeburgh and Thorpeness is another excellent East Anglian itinerary, more predominantly heathland but close to the sea, this time a bit further south in Suffolk (and thus a bit closer to the capital).

One thing to emphasise is that several of these clubs (and especially Worlington, Brancaster and Aldeburgh) are basically two-ball clubs, with a strong tradition of foursomes golf, and so you do need to plan any visits accordingly.

Overall though it's a terrific part of the UK for golf, much more visited ( I suspect) by English club golfers than you might discern from other sources, with lots of fun pubs and places to stay (to that extent rather like the Bournemouth area, a classic location for English-golf-club-based trips). And I have to disagree a teeny bit with my friend Sean with my own East Anglian ranking, which remains Brancaster (1), Worlington (2) Hunstanton and Aldeburgh (=3), and Woodbridge a very close fifth behind - with 'fun' and 'quality' in this case synonymous.


Hope this helps!


Good points here Richard on travel times and the 2 ball rules at Worlington and Brancaster which could be an issue with a larger group of travelers as most Americans would not be happy playing alternate shot. I also like your rankings making "fun" and "quality" synonymous as that is how I plan my own golf vacations. I'm a mediocre golfer at best so don't really want to be beaten up playing "championship" golf courses when there are other courses available that are both architecturally interesting and fun for the average golfer. That was my point in combining Sean's "quality" list with his "favorites" as it might help in identifying those exact courses.
I love GCA!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 11:51:26 AM »
Good points here Richard on travel times and the 2 ball rules at Worlington and Brancaster which could be an issue with a larger group of travelers as most Americans would not be happy playing alternate shot. I also like your rankings making "fun" and "quality" synonymous as that is how I plan my own golf vacations. I'm a mediocre golfer at best so don't really want to be beaten up playing "championship" golf courses when there are other courses available that are both architecturally interesting and fun for the average golfer. That was my point in combining Sean's "quality" list with his "favorites" as it might help in identifying those exact courses.


Isn’t Hunstanton pretty much singles and foresomes as well?
Atb

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 01:12:08 PM »
Rye is strictly two ball only and Woking is basically two ball bar certain times a couple of days a week. [size=78%]If Americans “don’t like two ball” it’s their loss missing a few of the UK’s finest courses. [/size]



Richard the Purdis Heath, Aldeburgh, Thorpeness trip is the best value quality golf trip I’ve done in years.
Cave Nil Vino

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 01:58:51 PM »
Sean, one big surprise for me (even though I've never played either) is that you chose Ballybunion Cashen but not the Old.  Curious to hear your thoughts about the two courses.   

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2018, 05:10:02 AM »
Sean, one big surprise for me (even though I've never played either) is that you chose Ballybunion Cashen but not the Old.  Curious to hear your thoughts about the two courses.   

Jim

There is no doubt Ballybunion Old is by miles the better course, but rough adversely impacts the enjoyment of the game.  When a round costs 200 Euro plus I expect much more in terms of enjoyment than the Old delivers. The Cashen has the same issues with rough and it is narrower in many places.  However, the hit on the wallet is much more pallatable and there are a ton of very cool shots to hit.  The Cashen strikes me as a great place to take a cart, drink a few beers and simply hit cool shots.  Call it a guilty pleasure.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2018, 12:49:02 PM »
Sean, one big surprise for me (even though I've never played either) is that you chose Ballybunion Cashen but not the Old.  Curious to hear your thoughts about the two courses.   
Jim
There is no doubt Ballybunion Old is by miles the better course, but rough adversely impacts the enjoyment of the game.  When a round costs 200 Euro plus I expect much more in terms of enjoyment than the Old delivers. The Cashen has the same issues with rough and it is narrower in many places.  However, the hit on the wallet is much more pallatable and there are a ton of very cool shots to hit.  The Cashen strikes me as a great place to take a cart, drink a few beers and simply hit cool shots.  Call it a guilty pleasure.
Ciao


200 Euro's and a pretty good chance of a 5, maybe even a 5+, hr round as well. And on a 'links' that's getting a wee bit on the faux side.
atb

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2018, 01:25:04 PM »
Rye is strictly two ball only and Woking is basically two ball bar certain times a couple of days a week. [size=78%]If Americans “don’t like two ball” it’s their loss missing a few of the UK’s finest courses. [/size]



First of all, I don't think it's just Americans that don't like 2 ball.I know quite a few Brits who don't like it.
That said, I know many Americans  that prefer it-and we are increasingly oversubscribed in our 2 ball only spots which I may well expand.
Secondly, not only would players who won't play the format miss certain courses, they also would miss the fun of Foursomes-a really great way to get the best of all worlds-cameraderie, pace, and competition.

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 11:15:02 AM »

1. I am digging 9 holers more and more.



I fully concur. I don’t know whether it is because I don’t have the same energy levels anymore or whether nine holers tend to be over more interesting terrain with less “standard” type holes. Either way in the last few years I’ve really come to enjoy them such that I managed 6 or 7 new ones last year.
 
It’s just a shame that they are becoming more and more an endangered species, either closing down (see thread on Ballindalloch) or have regretfully and usually not very successfully extended to 18 holes.
 
Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2018, 04:35:52 AM »
Rye is strictly two ball only and Woking is basically two ball bar certain times a couple of days a week. [size=78%]If Americans “don’t like two ball” it’s their loss missing a few of the UK’s finest courses. [/size]


First of all, I don't think it's just Americans that don't like 2 ball.I know quite a few Brits who don't like it.
That said, I know many Americans  that prefer it-and we are increasingly oversubscribed in our 2 ball only spots which I may well expand.
Secondly, not only would players who won't play the format miss certain courses, they also would miss the fun of Foursomes-a really great way to get the best of all worlds-cameraderie, pace, and competition.

Besides the actual "less shots deal" I think the big issue with 4somes is actually, they require 6+ hours to play (if seeing the entire course is at all important and one wants to hang out in the house) unless one is simply out pounding the turf.  It is difficult to enjoy tourist things or possibly even play 18 somewhere else if 4somes is the game.  4somes works better with a larger group that isn't in a rush to get anywhere or at courses that folks already know.  Lets hope that 4somes is always around even if as a niche form of the game.  That said, I very much like playing as a 2ball, though it can be a situation of being stuck in no man's land.  It is difficult to keep up with 4somes and painful to be stuck in the middle of 4balls.  Therefore it is far more important to pick the right time of day.

Niall...the biggest issue with 9 holers is trying to get folks on board to play them...especially as many are unknown and therefore may not be as good as 9 hole lovers hype them to be.  It is often a long way to get to these out of the courses....

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 04:38:36 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 07:24:25 AM »
Foresomes, if you play it correctly, ie with walking head, you mostly only talk with one other person for the whole round, maybe even two rounds. Personally I much prefer Greensomes (IMO more tactical as well).
9-holers - some folks are under the impression that 9-holers are, almost by definition, second rate. Not the case at all IMO but there's often an ego and vanity element in where some folks wish to play.
atb

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2018, 07:43:55 AM »
Foresomes, if you play it correctly, ie with walking head, you mostly only talk with one other person for the whole round, maybe even two rounds. Personally I much prefer Greensomes (IMO more tactical as well).

ATB

I never understood folks sayng 4somes being more sociable.  Of course, it is the case more and more that folks don't play proper 4some...which defeats a major point of the game as very quick.  I too prefer greensomes, but it at core very different from 4somes.  Greensomes is a more thought provoking game as to the choice of drive and who will approach.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 11:06:06 AM »
Sean,


I'm going to try and play about 10% of your favorites on my next trip to the UK.


I'll keep you posted. As you can imagine I have extremely high expectations given your level of excitement for them.


Cheers,


David
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 11:49:07 AM »
Foresomes, if you play it correctly, ie with walking head, you mostly only talk with one other person for the whole round, maybe even two rounds.
9-holers - some folks are under the impression that 9-holers are, almost by definition, second rate. Not the case at all IMO but there's often an ego and vanity element in where some folks wish to play.
atb


Agreed. We played a couple rounds where you switched partners every 6 holes-great fun and keeps one on their toes and solves the social thing while maintaining a brisk pace-which can be essential on a relatively uncrowded course populated by two balls and singles.
Combining the two (foresomes and 9 holers) would give one a chance to experience the best of both, while seeing a different shot the second go round.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 11:56:35 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2018, 09:04:11 PM »
Sean,

I'm going to try and play about 10% of your favorites on my next trip to the UK.

I'll keep you posted. As you can imagine I have extremely high expectations given your level of excitement for them.

Cheers,

David

David

Let me know when you roll in, maybe we can hook up for a game.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brian Finn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 10:02:42 PM »
Sean,
What are your thoughts on Crail Balcomie?  I would think it would be right in your wheelhouse. I loved everything about it.
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2018, 04:30:41 AM »
Sean,
What are your thoughts on Crail Balcomie?  I would think it would be right in your wheelhouse. I loved everything about it.

Brian

I liked Balcomie a lot more when it was much cheaper, but I never thought the course was special.  It has a few lovely holes and several which are fairly dull.  Perhaps the best part of the course is the walk from 14 to 15...is there a better walk in golf? 

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 04:32:14 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 02:20:15 PM »
Sean,


A thoughtful list, put together by a man who knows his golf courses. I respect your judgement, though I am bound to differ over one or two courses. I very much like foursomes, and I have experienced the East Anglian continent in the past (including Hunstanton) and very much enjoyed it. Interestingly enough Prestbury played all its matches against other clubs, home and away, in foursomes. Wilmslow didn't like it,  and threatened to go away but the fixtures are still played.


You must come back to Prestbury. The new course manager is working miracles and the condition, even in mid-winter, is now vastly improved. Trees are being taken out to open up old ways of playing certain holes and Mackenzie and Ebert have worked out some innovative solutions to keeping the course much the same yet quite different. The stimp meter has fairly speeded up, even in winter.


For your next Welsh tour do add Holywell. It's not a perfect course, there are several weak holes, the result of expanding to 18 holes and the building of the A55 coast road. But there is a lot of natural excitement in the course.


I can't remember if you've played Bull Bay or not, but it needs a visit. About 15 of the holes are very high class - I don't think the weak ones are by Fowler, but I've no proof. A very few silly bunkers have been introduced to no advantage, but the basic routing of the course is first rate, mostly peak to peak you might say.


If you come to Wales do fix up to meet. I'll not play, I've given up, but I like to walk round with chums.


Happy New Year!


Mark.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2018, 09:36:18 PM »
Mark

I like Prestbury quite a bit (it is quite a classy design) and would like to play it again, but it is a pig to get to with that horrible M6 as the connector.  I think Prestbury missed out on the top 50 due to cost. Did M&E smarten up the bunkers?

My appetite for day travel has been reduced in recent years with the increase of traffic.  There are quite a few courses that I want to see again...Delamere, Cavendish & Reddish Vale. 

I would also like to see you again and it still saddens me that you have given game up.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Favourite 50 GB&I
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 10:10:48 PM »
Of course I know of no club where anyone is forced to play foursomes. Four guys just split and play two quick twosomes.
Cave Nil Vino

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back