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Sean_A

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The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« on: December 28, 2017, 04:30:37 AM »
I did a list a few years back and at the time thought it would probably take about 4 lists over at least 6 years to get it right...assuming I continued to play courses on roughly the same pace as I have. 

The dotted line represents the groupings.  I don't have much problem at all where the courses in each group finish as they are more or less of the same quality.

Up, down etc indicates a comparison to the previous list.

The stars etc are my recommendations.

3* Don't miss for any reason                           
2* Plan a significant trip around this course                           
1* Worth an overnight detour                           
R Worth A Significant Day Trip (no more driving than it takes to play and have drinks)                           


1   Sandwich     Up 8   2*   
2   Sunny Old     Up 4   2*
----------------------------------------
3   Castle Stuart     New   1*
4   North Berwick     D 3   2*
5   Lahinch     D 2   1*
6   TOC     D 2   3*
7   Prestwick     D2   2*
8   Rye      Up 2   1*
9   Gleneagles Kings     New   1*
10  Kingsbarns     New   1*
----------------------------------------------
11   Ballybunion     D 4   1*
12   St Enodoc     D 4   2*
13   Royal Dornoch     Up 7   1*
14   The Island     Up 2   1*
15   St Georges Hill     Same   1*
16   Co Down     D 4   1*
17   Deal     D 15   2*
18  Elie     New   1*
19   Cruden Bay     D 1   1*
20   Royal Aberdeen     D 1   1*
21   Renaissance     D 8   1*
22   Walton Heath Old     D 8   2*
23   Trump Aberdeen     Up 11   1*
24   Woking     Up 6   1*
25   Formby     D 8   1*
26   Portrush      D 4   2*
27   Swinley Forest     D 4   1*
28   Sunny New     Same   1*
29   Muirfield     D 4   2*
30   Hoylake     Up 3   2*
31   Birkdale     D 5   2*
32   Co Sligo     D 3   1*
33   Worplesdon     Up 7   1*
34   Portmarnock     D 7   1*
35   Ganton     D 4   2*
36   Royal Worlington     D 4   1*
----------------------------------------------
37   Pennard     D 1   1*
38   Enniscrone     Same   R
39   Hunstanton     Up 3   1*
40   Brancaster     Same   1*
41   Porthcawl     Same   R
42   Carnoustie     Up 2   2*
43   Saunton East     D 6   1*
44   Turnberry     Up 1   2*
45   Castle Course     Up 2   R
46   Co Louth     New   R
47   Alwoodley     D 36   1*
48   Burnham & Berrow     D 9   R
49   Notts     Same   R
50   Goswick   New   1*

Dropped from previous list: Troon, Princes, Walton Heath New, Little Aston, Portstewart & Beau Desert.

The cut off at 50 meant the following courses didn't make the list, but I think they are more or less in the same class as the last group if perhaps slightly less so: Carnegie, Littlestone, Troon, Lytham, Dunbar, Princes, Carne, Woodhall Spa, Moortown, Walton Heath New, Little Aston & West Hill. 

Observations:

1. Alwoodley...I got it well wrong last time out.  Alwoodley is a fine course and extremely consistent, but it lacks All-England holes.  I can only point to the 8th as one such hole.

2. While I dislike the approaching theory for Castle Course and Trump Aberdeen, I think they are very good courses. 

3. I am a big fan of "the English inland course".  I included 11 such examples and one from Scotland. 

4. I haven't seen the new Turnberry, but from pix it looks to be much improved.  I would expect to see it rise in my rankings.

5. I haven't seen the Berkshires or Pulborough in many years so they were not included. 

6. Many of the courses are not ones I would choose as high priority for a return visit. 

7. Is Royal Aberdeen the least heralded great GB&I course?  It seems to run quietly under the radar.

8. Two newish links made the top 10.  I am hugely impressed by mix of playability and challenge Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart pull off. 

9. I played Sunny Old this summer...it is a much better course than course folks give it credit.  Most like it because of its beauty and the club...the quality of the design is a match for both.

10. I used the think Woking was a pleasant course with exceptional greens.  That was a mistake...Woking is top notch.

11. Awful rough is a real issue holding back many great courses from what they should be.

12. Loads of new courses made the top 100. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:44:49 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Matt Dawson

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 06:21:44 AM »
Very interesting, thanks for posting. May I add some comment to these? BTW I have played 40 of your 50 listed, for reference. The 10 I haven't are almost all in Scotland & Ireland


Observations:

1. Alwoodley...I got it well wrong last time out.  Alwoodley is a fine course and extremely consistent, but it lacks All-England holes.  I can only point to the 8th as one such hole.
Wow, what did Alwoodley do to you? I played it this summer and really enjoyed it. I have a soft spot for heathland as you know, and it generally hit the mark for me. Generally I am surprised at the low marks you give Alwoodley, Ganton & Notts, compared to the London heathland courses. It's a popular opinion (not necessarily mine) that they are the equal of, if not superior to, the SE belt, but you clearly see some difference. Or am I misunderstanding your marking? I see you give Ganton a 2* but rank at no 36

2. While I dislike the approaching theory for Castle Course and Trump Aberdeen, I think they are very good courses. 
I don't know what the approaching theory is - but I haven't played either of these so no comment

3. I am a big fan of "the English inland course".  I included 11 such examples and one from Scotland. 
Yes, me too

4. I haven't seen the new Turnberry, but from pix it looks to be much improved.  I would expect to see it rise in my rankings.
Ditto

5. I haven't seen the Berkshires or Pulborough in many years so they were not included. 
I really like both Berkshire Red & Pulborough especially. I would have them in roughly the 25-50 range of your list. A thought occurs to me - do you inadvertently rate more recent courses higher, due to them being fresh in your memory? I'm probably guilty of this a bit

6. Many of the courses are not ones I would choose as high priority for a return visit. 
Fair enough

7. Is Royal Aberdeen the least heralded great GB&I course?  It seems to run quietly under the radar.
Interesting point. It's one I haven't played, and I would love to see one day

8. Two newish links made the top 10.  I am hugely impressed by mix of playability and challenge Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart pull off. 
Not seen either unfortunately, so no comment. I'm sure they are great, but personally speaking I have little interest in paying the green fees they ask

9. I played Sunny Old this summer...it is a much better course than course folks give it credit.  Most like it because of its beauty and the club...the quality of the design is a match for both.
Agree it's great. Personally I prefer the New (can't believe you have it as low as no. 28), but then I generally tend to prefer getting to grips with "harder" courses, than ambling round easier ones. Just a personal preference

10. I used the think Woking was a pleasant course with exceptional greens.  That was a mistake...Woking is top notch.
Sorry, disagree here. Woking for me is average with interesting greens. What is top-notch about it, aside from the architectural significance of 4th?

11. Awful rough is a real issue holding back many great courses from what they should be.
Not noticed it personally, but then I don't regularly play as many different courses as you

12. Loads of new courses made the top 100. 
Do you mean new entrants you have played before and now think more highly of, or new plays? As there are no "new-build" courses there (guessing you haven't seen Beaverbrook yet), are you just shuffling your deck of existing plays based on how you perceive them on the day?

Ciao

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 07:23:11 AM »
Sean,


This is such a great list. I am saddened that I can't comment as I simply have played too few of these courses. That said, I enjoy the way you put this together.


I am slightly surprised that there is not a "Sean_A Value Scale" attached to each, as some of these seem to be geared more to the traveling golfer/visitor ($$$) versus the hidden gems played by locals that you typically post about.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:26:15 AM by Mike Sweeney »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 07:26:53 AM »
Sean - thanks for taking the time to revisit your list.  Can you clarify your intentions around the dashed lines and your numerical rankings?  Odd to see only one “3” which is then listed in the second group.  Are the dashed groupings your personal “fun” rankings vs. the overall quality of the courses?  This list should make for good discussion, though I haven’t see any new GB&I courses in years.  Pleased to see Gleneagles Kings, what a beauty. 

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2017, 09:02:39 AM »

Not many would have been brave enough to put the two biggies in NI nor the usual choice in S Wales nor some Open venues where you have so well done. Not sure I go along with the positioning of your No 1 nor of Muirfield and Carnoustie either nor a certain photogenic Cornish course but, hell it's your list, so put them where you like! Not sure C-Sligo is the best course in Sligo (and Mayo) either. And in answer to your point 7, I reckon so, probably seriously so. Good point 11 as well.
atb


PS - only 1 x 3* is meaner than the DS with 10's!



Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 09:33:43 AM »
Along with Matt, I'm curious about the difference between your "best" and your "ratings".  For example, you've got Porthcawl [R] and Enniscrone [R] ahead of Carnoustie [2*].


In the past, you have separated out "favorite" courses from how you would recommend them to others, and I understand that.  So which is this list?  Have you now equated "best" with your favorites?  Or is this something in between?

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 09:49:42 AM »
Thanks, always fun to read. 


I’d have put money on Kington featuring strongly and I’d let Brora  leapfrog your also rans.  That means no room in my top 50 (and reserves) for Worplesdon or Saunton East.
Let's make GCA grate again!

jeffwarne

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 10:05:40 AM »
I'm assuming these are Sean's quality rankings-not favorites rankings(which he distinguishes betweeen-I don't)


Sanwich #1.(or in first grouping)
I definitely need to reevaluate as I respect Sean's opinion.
I will say I was expecting quirk and a bunch of things I loved-maybe(obviously) it was my expectations-just didn't feel it.
Another reason why courses shouldn't be judged on one play ;)


Interesting to see Sean's high ranking for The Island (which has a very soft place in my heart but for some reason I can't place it as high)


Can't quite warm to Saunton East in the Top 50 as it's not even my favorite-the best- course on the property...
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:17:38 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 11:40:11 AM »
12. Loads of new courses made the top 100.  Do you mean new entrants you have played before and now think more highly of, or new plays? As there are no "new-build" courses there (guessing you haven't seen Beaverbrook yet), are you just shuffling your deck of existing plays based on how you perceive them on the day?


Matt...a mix of new courses and shuffling the deck.

Can you clarify your intentions around the dashed lines and your numerical rankings?  Odd to see only one “3” which is then listed in the second group.  Are the dashed groupings your personal “fun” rankings vs. the overall quality of the courses?  This list should make for good discussion, though I haven’t see any new GB&I courses in years.  Pleased to see Gleneagles Kings, what a beauty.


The dashed lines are quality groupings.  It doesn't matter much to me where courses are listed within a group...they are roughly the same quality.

Along with Matt, I'm curious about the difference between your "best" and your "ratings".  For example, you've got Porthcawl [R] and Enniscrone [R] ahead of Carnoustie [2*].

The star rating is how I would recommend courses. I think most people would be more interested in playing Carnoustie than either Porthcawl or Enniscrone even though I don't believe Carnoustie is better.

I'm assuming these are Sean's quality rankings-not favorites rankings(which he distinguishes betweeen-I don't)Sanwich #1.(or in first grouping)I definitely need to reevaluate as I respect Sean's opinion.I will say I was expecting quirk and a bunch of things I loved-maybe(obviously) it was my expectations-just didn't feel it.Another reason why courses shouldn't be judged on one play ;)  Interesting to see Sean's high ranking for The Island (which has a very soft place in my heart but for some reason I can't place it as high)


If there is perfection Sandwich is as close to it as any course in GB&I.  Interesting routing with well above average links greens over wonderful terrain.  The course can host a championship on any given week and still be playable for handicap play. 

Invariably, the more we talk about best courses the more lists become homogenized.  The likes of North Berwick, Elie and Pennard are strong hold-outs against this trend.

I am not a huge fan of The Island because it is very difficult, but there is no doubt in my mind that it is one of the very best Irish courses.  The Island has it all in terms of variety and interest. Unfortunately, as at places like Co Down and Ballybunion, rough rears its ugly head to reduce the fun fctor of these great designs.

To me, Saunton has a near unmatched set of 4s.  Any course with that sort of backbone is going to score high in my books.  The West has just as many top notch holes, but more mundane holes.  It comfortably makes my top 100 GB&I...very under-rated course.


Ciao
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 11:45:23 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Garland Bayley

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 12:47:12 PM »
To me Saunton East is mundane city. To each his own.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mark Pearce

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 12:51:24 PM »
Thanks, Sean, much to pore over here.


A couple of initial observations.  I'm delighted to see Elie debut so high and really pleased that Goswick makes the list.  However, much as I love Goswick, to see it in this list but not Silloth strikes me as wrong.  Second, I'm with those that don't get the demotion of Alwoodley.  I played it a couple of times this summer and whilst it's not up with the very best London heathlands I do think it is excellent.  That said, I think Notts is a better course, so I guess this is a personal preference thing.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 04:52:39 PM »
Mark

I played Alwoodley a few more times this year and I really can't see where the greatness is.  Greatness requires great holes and in that regard Alwoodley is lacking except for the 8th.  There are plenty of good holes, but great?  The decision to dumb down the 15th green (best green on the course) is astonishing.  The best thing about the course is the crossing 3s to make the routing work...genius that is.  I guess I would say Alwoodley is nearly there, but missing something.  Perhaps if the greens were more interesting (could say the same for Notts) I would be more supportive...though top 50 (going as high as 37) is very good regardless.

Speaking of Notts, I played with a bunch of locals at RAC recently and there were good golfers that never heard of it!  There is a serious marketing issue with Notts.

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 04:54:10 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Peter Pallotta

Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 06:35:44 PM »
While the Yank has short arms and deep pockets when it comes to handing out *3s, from reading I think his most telling & important dividing line is actually between an R and a *1 -- worth a 4 hour drive vs worth an overnight stay.
Now, since his recommendations are aimed at *travelling* golfers, this is as it should be. But it's the scale of a hard, cold man, and of an unfeeling heart nonetheless.
My poor beloved Notts -- so close to a Woking or Formby, and yet so far away. They'll be no overnight detour for Notts' sake!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 06:43:14 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Sean_A

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2017, 07:06:53 PM »
Pietro

Yes...the leap from R to 1* is significant.  Sort of like the Doak leap from 6 to 7. 

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Charles Lund

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2017, 08:35:34 PM »
Thanks for posting the list.


It was good meeting up with you and David last summer.  It's clear you have seen lots of courses and I appreciate your sharing of ratings with this posting.  I like your effort at defining your rankings in the way you do.


I have played approximately 20 courses on the list.  When we spoke last summer on my trip, I think I mentioned St. Enodoc, Saunton East, and Burnham and Berrow were my three favorites, although I was happy playing Royal North Devon and Saunton West. 


I was curious if you could articulate aspects of your own concept of what adds or detracts from the way you look at worth in rating courses.  I'd also be curious if there are factors such as partial renovations or poor conditioning that relate to lower rankings for some courses.


I'm considering Notts, Woodhall Spa, Ganton, Alwoodley, Formby, and maybe Silloth on Solway next summer.  Some of your observations are a bit at odds with what I saw in the Confidential Guide. 


Charles Lund

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2017, 05:22:34 AM »
Charles

For best rankings I only consider the quality of the course.  Of course, my idea of quality is just that, mine. 

The recommendation rating is based on much more than quality.  I look at history, beauty, the club, location, conditioning (if extreme either way) and cost...though quality is the most important thing. 

The England trip you are considering next year is superb. I like all the courses mentioned.  If you don't like those courses you don't like English golf. Doak likes Notts and Woodhall more than I do.  I think we are in perfect agreement about the other courses. If you are tearing through the middle of England consider jumping off big gun street and play Cavendish and Reddish Vale.  I like these more than Doak does (and more than all the others listed) and its an open secret that I think Cavendish is a masterful design...it nearly makes my top 10 Happy 100. 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41162.0.html

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 05:24:09 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Niall C

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2017, 05:37:52 AM »
Sean


You once accused me of bigging up the courses I've been a member at and while I acknowledge that I'm guilty as charged, I agree with Mark that for Silloth not to be in the reckoning seems wrong. I'd also urge you to go and have another look at Gailes. In the last two years they have obliterated nearly all of the stands of trees that were dotted around the course, removed huge swathes of gorse and mowed a lot of the heather lying adjacent to fairways. All in all the work has both made the course more playable or at least quicker to get round, and the removal of all the trees/gorse has revealed some fantastic contours.


And while I'm at it, you really need to get up to Lossiemouth to play Moray Old   :)


Niall

Mark Pearce

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2017, 06:26:03 AM »
Sean,


I sort of see where you are coming from at Alwoodley but I'd argue that 5, 10, 11 and 18 are all holes that might be considered great.  What it does have is a lot of really, really solid holes and no stinkers, with great variety and lots of interest.  That said, I wouldn't have it ahead of Notts or lots of others on your list, so I'm not sure I'd argue with the ranking.  And changing the 15th green was a crime.


The ignorance of Notts in the UK golfing community is depressing.  I'd have called it astonishing but it isn't.  That said, I reckon I could sample a group of keen golfers up here and find that most hadn't heard of Woking.  Or Deal.


Charles,


That's a fabulous trip.  Let me know your dates and, if you'd like, I'd be happy to join you for a game or two. 
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2017, 09:25:33 AM »
I can comment only on the Irish courses until our trip next year to London and the Highlands remedies the problem to at least a small degree.


I quite agree with Sean’s high regard of The Island Club which both my wife and I enjoyed immensely, particularly the variety of holes even with the start of eight par fours which in fact present a run of very different holes from each other.


One question relevant for our trip: I am very much looking forward to Brora. From my readings, I can see why it does not make the list but how would it assess it merits relative to those that do?  We are playing it regardless but am curious.


Thanks,


Ira

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2017, 09:58:30 AM »
Charles

For best rankings I only consider the quality of the course.  Of course, my idea of quality is just that, mine. 

The recommendation rating is based on much more than quality.  I look at history, beauty, the club, location, conditioning (if extreme either way) and cost...though quality is the most important thing. 

The England trip you are considering next year is superb. I like all the courses mentioned.  If you don't like those courses you don't like English golf. Doak likes Notts and Woodhall more than I do.  I think we are in perfect agreement about the other courses. If you are tearing through the middle of England consider jumping off big gun street and play Cavendish and Reddish Vale.  I like these more than Doak does (and more than all the others listed) and its an open secret that I think Cavendish is a masterful design...it nearly makes my top 10 Happy 100. 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41162.0.html



I would second the recommendation for Cavendish.  I would love to get back there, but I keep going to the UK in December, and that's not the time to go to Cavendish   :o


Of course, now that I see Sean has rated The Castle Course above Woodhall Spa, his opinions are dead to me.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2017, 10:58:14 AM »
Woodhall has many things to recommend it, but it's just so damned flat. The land is flat. The greens are flat. About the only thing that isn't flat are the bunkers. if only they'd been built at the same time as the greens and they could have used the material they excavated to make the greens more interesting.


Tom, I am looking forward to seeing what you and team have done to the place. I believe that heavy duty tree clearance will make a significant difference to the feel of the place -- it already had a very strong stand of heather. But you can't easily create undulation where none exists.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2017, 11:32:44 AM »
Of course, now that I see Sean has rated The Castle Course above Woodhall Spa, his opinions are dead to me.

 :D

Ciao



New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

David_Tepper

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2017, 11:56:53 AM »
"One question relevant for our trip: I am very much looking forward to Brora. From my readings, I can see why it does not make the list but how would it assess it merits relative to those that do?"

Ira F. -

I have probably played Brora 25 times since I started visiting the Highlands bi-annually in 2004. One could argue it is the "purest" links in the area. There is a nice mixture of short & long par-3's and par-4's.

I would fault the course for being a little too one-dimensional (visually at least) for my taste and for having a few too many blind tee shots.   

DT

P.S. When you visit Brora, be sure to spend 5-10 minutes in the Peter Thomson Room in the clubhouse. It is the first room to the right at the top of the stairs. As you are climbing the stairs, be sure to note how many times J. Miller was the club champion. ;)
   
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 12:07:44 PM by David_Tepper »

Charles Lund

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Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2017, 01:08:58 PM »

I cleaned up a post that had some characters included that made it difficult to see the questions.

Ally started a thread that addressed the issue of depth versus breadth on a golf trip.  I was asking about something a bit different, which relates to where to return for an extended stay, which could accommodate a multi-day stay.
"6  . Many of the courses are not ones I would choose as high priority for a return visit."


You also posted a favorites list.  In another reference, you listed factors that went into the construction of the 2017 list you just posted here.  The quote above about point 6 leads me to ask the question about a) courses you would travel to for a multi-day play and b) destinations for a 5 to 7 night stay.  Your list mentions cost and by inference, value.

I have returned to some areas and courses over and over.  I tend to have avoided over-regimented, expensive, and difficult to access courses for return visits. 


Charles Lund
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 12:31:11 PM by Charles Lund »

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Yank's 2017 Best 50 GB&I
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2017, 11:54:41 AM »
 
Sean,
 
Thanks as ever for an interesting list...
 

 Sean
 You once accused me of bigging up the courses I've been a member at and while I acknowledge that I'm guilty as charged...
 Niall
 

 
Afraid I'm joining Niall on this  ::) [size=78%], so whats wrong with Notts (Hollinwell)? Do I have to stop inviting you for a game as punishment or invite you for more games so you can finally get it? [/size] ;D
 
[/size]

 My poor beloved Notts -- so close to a Woking or Formby, and yet so far away. They'll be no overnight detour for Notts' sake!
 
[size=78%]
 
Peter however is more than welcome!  ;)
 
[/size]

 I'm considering Notts, Woodhall Spa, Ganton, Alwoodley, Formby, and maybe Silloth on Solway next summer. 
Charles Lund
 
[size=78%]
 
And Charles, let me know when you are thinking of making this trip and I'll see what I can do! And anyone else for that matter who fancies a game at Hollinwell after seeing it make the Gourmet's Choice in vol 1 of Tom Doak's Confidential Guide, dont hesitate to get in touch.
 
[/size]

 Speaking of Notts, I played with a bunch of locals at RAC recently and there were good golfers that never heard of it!  There is a serious marketing issue with Notts.
[size=78%]
 Ciao
 
[/size]

 The ignorance of Notts in the UK golfing community is depressing.  I'd have called it astonishing but it isn't.  That said, I reckon I could sample a group of keen golfers up here and find that most hadn't heard of Woking.  Or Deal.
 
It's interesting that you mention the marketing, but is it a serious issue? As Mark says, there are groups of decent golfers all over the country who aside from a few courses they've seen on TV, have no idea of the excellent courses out there in the rest of the country! As can be seen from the responses on this thread, Notts is known and loved. However, the club does acknowledge that marketing is something we could be better at and so a Marketing Sub Committee has been set up accordingly. Now if only there was some way to boost that marketing, by someone on here writing a lengthy post talking positively about the wonderful Notts (Hollinwell)? [size=78%] ;D
[/size] Cheers, James[size=78%]
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

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