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Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #425 on: November 17, 2024, 03:46:53 PM »
Dornoch closes its waiting list amid 'unprecedented demand'
Sinking fast?

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #426 on: November 18, 2024, 05:23:53 AM »
Dornoch would not represent the general situation and problems providing and sustaining economical golf in the United Kingdom.


The new labour government have just put multiple daggers into the bodies of many small businesses by increasing wages, insurance contributions, business rates and employment laws. Golf Clubs will suffer and many more will close.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Mark Pearce

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Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #427 on: November 18, 2024, 06:06:59 AM »
The new labour government have just put multiple daggers into the bodies of many small businesses by increasing wages, insurance contributions, business rates and employment laws. Golf Clubs will suffer and many more will close.
Not sure that this is the right place for politics, Adrian.  On a different forum, others might point to actions of the previous government that left this one with little choice but not here.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #428 on: November 18, 2024, 07:28:39 AM »
I must agree with Mark, but I would also echo Adrian's point that Dornoch is in no sense representative of anything.

Apart from anything else, I am pretty certain it is the golf club that has the highest proportion of its revenue from non-members anywhere in the world.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2024, 09:33:25 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #429 on: November 18, 2024, 09:17:25 AM »
The new labour government have just put multiple daggers into the bodies of many small businesses by increasing wages, insurance contributions, business rates and employment laws. Golf Clubs will suffer and many more will close.
Not sure that this is the right place for politics, Adrian.  On a different forum, others might point to actions of the previous government that left this one with little choice but not here.
Factually correct the Labour government have done exactly what I said. You have brought into point that it might be the fault of another.

A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #430 on: Today at 02:13:27 AM »
Dornoch would not represent the general situation and problems providing and sustaining economical golf in the United Kingdom.


The new labour government have just put multiple daggers into the bodies of many small businesses by increasing wages, insurance contributions, business rates and employment laws. Golf Clubs will suffer and many more will close.


Bring on the robots! 😉

Ben Stephens

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Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #431 on: Today at 02:51:48 AM »
It has been long coming there is a much bigger divide between the top and bottom clubs than ever before that I can remember.


We are seeing green fees at £1000 per round in 2025 and lowest probably £1 that is huge.


Also golf equipment, maintenance equipment, pay, services (electric/gas/water) is becoming more and more expensive. The quality of living is going down as people are now having to prioritise things more often. 


It's a global issues that is influencing this not specific governments who have changed hands over the years and decades have both sides really improved things? everyone is entitled to their opinions but the bigger picture is more worrying.


The UK weather (enormous amount of rainfall from Aug 2023 to Apr 2024) badly hit the finances of many golf clubs especially those who rely on green fees more than memberships. I have heard in the grapevine that potentially up to 300 golf clubs in the UK could easily close if things do not improve. Fortunately the weather is better which hopefully will help a number of clubs.


Many clubs have increased their membership/green fees this year and need to hit the right spot commercial/economic wise. Where I am two golf courses have closed over the last 5 years, one is increasing their annual membership by 50% has lead to people trying to join other clubs in the area which now all have a waiting list.


There is demand in some areas and in others not. It does make you question why the R&A said in the 1990s that 750 more golf courses are needed to meet demand However they didn't say quality or quantity. Most of these courses were poorly designed and created by landowners and farmers makes me wonder how many of the post 1990s golf courses have closed since then.


Also there is an increase in nomadic golfers who rather play different golf courses than be a member of a golf club. England Golf's iGolf app has helped them to get an official handicap without being a member of a club at much lower cost - one also wonders what the increase is in numbers year by year of going down this route.


Cheers
Ben
« Last Edit: Today at 04:46:48 AM by Ben Stephens »

Sean_A

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Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #432 on: Today at 03:32:44 AM »
If there is an increase in nomadic golfers that must be due to more golfers…no? If clubs are full it stands to reason.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #433 on: Today at 04:49:27 AM »
If there is an increase in nomadic golfers that must be due to more golfers…no? If clubs are full it stands to reason.


Ciao


Sean


England Golf have said there is an increase in participation in golf overall - not sure where these figures come from. However overall I suspect less money is going into certain golf clubs as less people are paying for membership and just paying green fees whenever they want to play. Some just want to play golf on a number of different golf courses rather than be a member of one club.


Cheers
Ben


PS The Lions are really on fire this season




Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #434 on: Today at 04:57:39 AM »
If there is an increase in nomadic golfers that must be due to more golfers…no? If clubs are full it stands to reason.


Ciao


Sean


England Golf have said there is an increase in participation in golf overall - not sure where these figures come from. However overall I suspect less money is going into certain golf clubs as less people are paying for membership and just paying green fees whenever they want to play. Some just want to play golf on a number of different golf courses rather than be a member of one club.


Cheers
Ben


PS The Lions are really on fire this season


There has long been a few divisions in English golf where some clubs don’t fill their memberships. But I don’t think there is any doubt that more clubs are full now compared to 15 years ago.


I don’t follow NFL. When the Lions win a Suoerbowl let me know 😎. I will believe it when I see it….and after a lifetime of terrible Lions teams you surely can’t blame me.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #435 on: Today at 09:25:55 AM »
Sean,


The Lions are certainly far the best team in the NFL - Dan Campbell is doing a hell of a job and I do hope they go all the way this season


Still remember games as well as World Cup Football (Soccer in US speak) on TV in the old Pontiac Silverdome


Cheers
Ben

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #436 on: Today at 09:47:24 AM »
Sean,

The Lions are certainly far the best team in the NFL - Dan Campbell is doing a hell of a job and I do hope they go all the way this season

Still remember games as well as World Cup Football (Soccer in US speak) on TV in the old Pontiac Silverdome

Cheers
Ben


Oh yes, the Silverdome. I saw some concerts there 😎


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Reply #437 on: Today at 10:49:47 AM »
Sean,

The Lions are certainly far the best team in the NFL - Dan Campbell is doing a hell of a job and I do hope they go all the way this season
Still remember games as well as World Cup Football (Soccer in US speak) on TV in the old Pontiac Silverdome


Cheers
Ben


That's debatable to say the least, the Chiefs are certainly still the heir apparent until they get knocked off thier perch....and right now I'm only seeing two teams with a chance:  Detroit and Buffalo

Dan C remains his biggest enemy given last years NFC champ game debacle.