Holes Played To The Corner Of A Property....

[Sean_A]

...a good idea or simply the result of a forced property size/shape decision which usually yields less than totally satisfactory holes?


Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

You’ll need to elaborate, Sean. Too many variables.


Most designers are happy when they can use corners effectively.

[Matt MacIver]

TOC is only 50% effective with holes 9-10-11 and 17 (breather hole discussion aside). 

[BHoover]

I like them.

[Tim Martin]

I like them.

Lots of good ones. Think Wannamoisett and Merion West.

[MCirba]

Misquamicut has some terrific corner holes including the 2nd, 6th, 9th, and 14th.

[Tim Martin]

Misquamicut has some terrific corner holes including the 2nd, 6th, 9th, and 14th.

Mike-Spot on observation!!!! A really diverse property with the contrast of inland versus the holes out along Narragansett Bay.

[Niall C]

Sean


I think how well you can use the boundary is a big issue. The first at Prestwick is a case in point. It's the wall that makes it IMO. Alternatively the boundary can be a constraint in terms of green positioning, safety issues with adjoining properties, length of hole etc.


As you know I always like to big up one of my former clubs and I think Gailes does it well with the 8th hole playing down into the corner. Despite being constrained with the length of hole they have produced a beauty (IMO) with the green similar to 2nd Dornoch.


Niall

[MCirba]

Misquamicut has some terrific corner holes including the 2nd, 6th, 9th, and 14th.

Mike-Spot on observation!!!! A really diverse property with the contrast of inland versus the holes out along Narragansett Bay.

Thanks Tim. Wannamoisett was the first one to come to mind but I see you already took it.

[Mike Nuzzo]

As long as the land is good boundaries can be helpful - at least they were for Seminole.
Cheers

[Mike Hendren]

Yeah, that 2nd at Huntercombe is a real dog!

I absolutely love such holes. 

Bogey

[Jon Cavalier]

Chicago Golf Club has four great corner holes.

[Ed Brzezowski]

The one I play every week is one of the worst holes on the planet. A Geoffrey Cornish nightmare. Agree with Merion West.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Sean,


On any property under 160 acres or so, the corners have to be considered, as it is almost always required to push holes as close as possible to get 18 holes on the land.


In general, it is easy to work with corners if they are high ground.  Low corners, streams, etc., are hard to use for greens and tees, and you get either an awkward hole or you don't use the corner at all, at least until the land starts rising up again.  Property low at all/most corners and a big hill in the middle is the hardest of all to create a good golf course.


Property dimensions are important, too. In the US, with our quarter sections, of 1320 by 1320 feet, and hole corridors of 200-300 feet wide, we have been faced with putting four wide holes or six narrow hole corridors on that piece of property (assuming only one way in and out of that parcel, requiring even numbers).  Obviously, if the corners don't support tee or green locations, 4 holes is much, much better (and probably is in any case for safety and width reasons)

[Marty Bonnar]

My heart sinks when I reach the eighth tee at Leven and can see a group in the fairway, a group on the green and TWO groups on the ninth tee.
That ninth green - tenth tee corner is a disaster. Aarrggghhh...although it should also be added that the eighth, ninth and tenth holes are all gooduns!

F.

[Howard Riefs]

Some "corner holes" were among my favorites during a 10-course trip to Scotland in August...

Cruden Bay – 4
Elie – 13
Kingsbarns – 12
Fraserburgh - 13

[Matt Frey, PGA]

I think No. 2 at Camargo is a great hole and excellent use of land and property lines.

[Joe Schackman]

Whenever I think of holes played to the corner of properties that don't quite work I think of Plainfield CC. Holes 13 through 15 just don't quite mesh with the rest of the course (which I love by the way).

[Mark Pearce]

Elie has several.  1, 3, 5, 10, 11, 13, 17 and 18.  I think they're all pretty good holes.

[David_Tepper]

#11, #12 & #13 at AGNC ("Amen Corner") work pretty well.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Thinking of the last few courses I have routed, I actually have had a few low corners. 


One had a gentle up slope, and we worked a nice "slide the contours hole" from the tee in the corner.  The green next to it required a lot of fill, to be raised above flood plain and be more visible coming down the hill.


On a renovation, we restored an old low tee to high fairway hole, but raised the tee at least 12 feet to provide some vision up the fairway. It is a rare up and over hole for me, but I like the looks of it in dirt (and now sod).  A par 3 green sits next to it, also raised to avoid flooding.


If the low area isn't steep, things can be done.  And, if any creek in the area is at least far enough from the corner to place a tee or a green, it can be used.


The key words in my original post was "In general....."

[Kalen Braley]

15 thru 17 at Cypress work pretty well!! 


P.S.  Sean I am curious if you would elaborate here on why they would be less effective

[Bill Brightly]

Whenever I think of holes played to the corner of properties that don't quite work I think of Plainfield CC. Holes 13 through 15 just don't quite mesh with the rest of the course (which I love by the way).

I agree with you about 13-15. But the 4th Hole is pretty special!

[Peter Pallotta]

Jeff B - thanks for your post 13. It was very informative and helped explain the Par 3 6th hole on my home course: it has a stream that flows along the left edge of the property line and then cuts in front of the green and flows into the pond there. All the area from tee to green is otherwise maintained as rough (and is one of the few always-wet spots on the course) and the green is tucked back and left (literally right in the corner of the property). The front two thirds of the green banks quite steeply down to the pond, while the back third slopes the other way, almost right down to the tree/fence line. And there is a single (but relatively large and deep) bunker all along the green’s left side. All in all, given the constraints, a good little 160 yard one-shorter on a decent local course, calling ideally for a slight draw that’s neither short nor too long, and that doesn’t draw too much either. After reading your post, it felt like I got into the mind of the architect when, some 45 years ago, he was trying to figure out how to best use this low-lying corner of the site. Thanks again
Peter

[Rick Lane]

Wasn't it a design trend at some point (Raynor?) to route an "outer circle" on a property, and then an "inner circle" in the opposite direction?    Bits of this at CC of Fairfield for sure....and in doing so, the architect necessarily hit the corners and edges of the property?