David Davis,
How is it possible that Barnbougle Lost Farm is a lesser course than Ellerston when Lost Farm is a better course than Barnbougle Dunes?!
Being serious about it, I know absolutely no one who preferred BLF to BD on their first visit, but quite a few who've played 10-15 rounds at each course and have Lost Farm in front (myself included).
Ellerston is a lot of fun, a unique proposition and maintained very well, but it doesn't have a single hole that can rival 4, 5, 8 or 14 at Lost Farm. Nor does Lost Farm have a hole as pedestrian as 9-11 at Ellerston.
I suppose the rankings, by virtue of most raters being one-and-done, maybe two-and-done, at remote courses, will continue to mean courses like Lost Farm sit far lower than they deserve to.
Scott,
Touché, thanks for calling me out. Many of your points I really can't argue with. I agree that a great course just gets better with more plays. Personally as I think you know I only played 36 holes there, while I think that's better than 1 and done. I would absolutely love the opportunity to play another 10 rounds at each course to learn all the fine details etc. Yours is a such a luxury problem, no different than mine just on the opposite site of the spectrum. Living on the other side of the world just the opportunity to visit OZ and sample the great courses you guys have is such a honor but living there and being able to play 10-20 rounds on them to have a better understanding, appreciation and intimate knowledge well that's the stuff many of us dream of.
That being said, I like many others in my boat can only go on what we can learn in our limited plays. The one fair side to this is that all the courses are being judged in pretty much the same manner. Lost Farm, yes excellent course, I believe I agreed with you guys on this point. However, in my mind the best courses in the world need to have as many all world holes, spectacular holes and standout holes as possible. Just having excellent holes is not enough to stand among golf's elite. Now totally agree that opinions see all sides of the spectrum as to what satisfies these requirements. I can only speak from my own and based on my limited number of plays. Barnbougle, Cape Wickham, Tara Iti, NSW (this one thrown in for you ;-), Royal Melbourne, Kingston Heath, Ellerston all have absolutely tons of standout holes that literally take your breath away and leave unforgettable imprints on your memory. Lost Farm while excellent didn't leave me with any holes that had this effect. The land is far less interesting to me than Barbougle and the routing lacks this wow factor that makes the great courses standout for me.
You were specific in your points for example about Ellerston's 9-11 holes. 9 and 10 being in my opinion very strong risk reward par 5's that high reward strong tee shots but do have very interesting tee shots. I think the second shot on 9 may suffer slight from the encroachment of trees but do understand that this is essentially works well with the strategy of the hole in trying to make you take a clear choice of weather to go for it in two and risk not clearing the trees or carefully lay up and be face with a somewhat tricky second shot and an uneven down hill lie on the third. I see it as have a strong risk reward characteristic including a very interesting and challenging 2nd shot should you choose the safer layup option or perhaps are forced into it with a less than ideal drive.
10, another par 5 offers a completely different theme, choose which side of the fairway based on the centerline tree or for long hitters fly it over the trees on the right. The second shot is very interesting due to the left side being taken out of play. however the best line of approach to the green is most certainly from as close to the dry wash creek bed as possible. Play it safe to the right where there is tons of width and then be faced with a tricky approach to the very interesting and shallow green from that angle. I personally thing those two par 5's are strong than any par 5 at Lost Farm based on my 2 plays.
11 on the other hand is an excellent downhill par 4 with a risk reward element on the left hand side, take off as much as you dare and you will benefit from the kick down the hill. the approach to the well bunkered green requires either a shot you can fly into the green high or land well short and run on. Hardly what I would call pedestrian, in fact I honestly believe all 3 holes are excellent.
Anyone interested in following this discussion please take a look at this video that somebody posted. You can see the holes we are discussing in case you don't know them.
https://vimeo.com/144553100I have to run to a meeting but will come back to you on the Lost Farm part. I know very well that you and Mike and whoever else will see things differently and I totally respect that, also respect you guys have tremendous knowledge on the subject and that we likely won't agree on everything but I do find the discussion very interesting to say the least and one that offers a potentially very interesting learning experience into another way to look at Lost Farm that not only I am missing.