5 best sets of greens in GB&I

[Ally Mcintosh]

We all know that a course with a great set of greens is half way to being a great   course.


What makes a great set of greens differs for everyone but for me, it's probably elegant and unusual internal contouring that trumps most other things. The green site itself has as much to do with the hole being great so I'm placing less emphasis on that aspect.


With the above in mind, my 5 favourite / best set of greens today (tomorrow might be different) are:


Deal
Ganton
Portrush
Woking
Machrihanish


I decided TOC wasn't worth mentioning as it so clearly will be on so many lists.


Honourable mentions: Sandwich, Golspie, Dornoch, North Berwick, Prestwick


So I guess that's 10.


Must be missing great ones. What else is out there?

[Clyde Johnson]

Huntercombe!!!?

[Robin_Hiseman]

Liphook has a terrific set of greens.

If my memory serves me right, Duff House Royal has a full set of Mackenzie's.

I was very impressed with The Grove's green complexes.

Little Leckford's Colt greens are unique.

[Sean_A]

Off the top of my head I came up with 14 courses

Sandwich
TOC
Prestwick
Deal
Elie
Woking
Sacred 9
Welshpool
Beau Desert
Pennard
Dornoch
Leckford Old
Eden
Huntercombe

Deal, Woking & Leckford Old are claimed.  So I will take

TOC
Sandwich
Welshpool
Beau Desert
Pennard

Ciao

[Tim Gallant]

Not any that haven't already been listed. Machrihanish and TOC stand as two of the very best. I still can't get over the 2nd and 3rd greens at Mach. I think about those two greens more than just about any other green I have played in the UK.


Machrihanish
St Andrews
Royal Portrush (Dunluce)
Deal
Sandwich

[Bob Montle]

I have only played Machrihanish, but those greens were the wildest and most fun to play of every course I'v ever played.

[Niall C]

Ally

Your thread is a timely one for me as I've just got back from BUDA where I also managed to play Mildenhall, Deal and Sandwich as well as Littlestone and Rye, and all had very good or great greens.

Sandwich had some lovely movement and for the first time player gave a good idea of where to hit and the danger that lurked for a miss. Deal less so but then they were bigger, and for someone like me who doesn't hit many greens in regulation, they were probably definitely the most fun greens for scrambling. The first, second, most definitely the fifth, and the ninth at Mildenhall were terrific also. In my mind Rye and Littlestone were a bit similar with Rye the better of the two.

So that said, todays choices are;

1. Deal
2. Sandwich
3. Mildenhall
4. Duff House Royal (Robin - thanks for the reminder)
5. Nairn

I suspect if I were to play the likes of Moray Old, Machrihanish etc again they would all come into the reckoning.

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

I will go for some that have not been mentioned like Sean. For me I look for variety of style and movement.




Brora
Grantown on Spey
Lindrick
Dewsbury & District
Ogden


One or two obscure ones but food for thought maybe.


Jon

[Tom_Doak]

The group has named pretty much all of the ones I thought of when I saw the title.


Ally, the one I did not think of was Ganton ... it's been a long time since I have been there, and I don't remember the greens as a primary feature of the course.  I agree that Portrush belongs in the conversation, even though the greens are more built and more subdued than most of the others in discussion.

[Tim Martin]

Guys-I have always been fascinated by the lore of the Sitwell Park greens. How much of what is there now resembles Mackenzie's original effort and are those greens in the conversation? Thank you.

[Thomas Dai]

Some of the ones I would have picked have already gone so here are a couple from a bit under the radar -
Whittington Heath
Sandwell Park
atb

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Jon, I'm sorry but I can't find much favour for Dewsbury and District> It's a very manufactured course which I played fairy frequently in the 80s. I am, however, glad to see that you like Halifax - it's one of those courses that divides opinion. I like it.


I'm going to chuck in two other courses, Cavendish and Prestbury. When it is dry (not very often) Cavendish has some of the most wicked greens imaginable. Prestbury has come on immensely since the advent of a new green keeper. He's a genius. Playing speeds have increased markedly at all times of the year. In fact they are going to have to modify the 9th and 17th to make them genuinely playable on all parts of the putting surface (Mackenzie and Ebert).


Prestbury has bought in to evangelism and genuinely wants to promote the course. So if any of you GCAers fancy a round I can probably fix it.

[Ally Mcintosh]

The group has named pretty much all of the ones I thought of when I saw the title.


Ally, the one I did not think of was Ganton ... it's been a long time since I have been there, and I don't remember the greens as a primary feature of the course.  I agree that Portrush belongs in the conversation, even though the greens are more built and more subdued than most of the others in discussion.

Tom,


I hope you can get back to Ganton sometime soon. Before my visit, I knew of the soil, grand bunkering and the strategy it created. But I wasn't expecting such a wonderful set of elegant greens, a few with some major internal contours but many with a large amount of micro-movement, creating a number of really interesting putts and pin positions. It all sat in to the land so perfectly as well.


Also agree on Portrush - they are more obviously built than the other courses I mentioned. Perhaps the perfect example of Colt's "modern" design at the greens and also why recent Colt imitators just don't quite match him.

[Ryan Coles]

I think Burnham deserves a mention. 2,3,6,8,9,14,15,16 offer lots of variety and interest.

[Marty Bonnar]

Somewhat unsurprisingly, I'm a big fan of the greens at Kingsbarns. My very favourite feature of them isn't the greens themselves (which are awesome), but it's the tie-ins to the surrounding contours, which are nothing short of genius.

F.


Modified for the previously strangulated grammar. 

[Peter Pallotta]

A question (and not a very smart one):
Taking all these lists of great greens collectively, is there one architect whose name features most prominently as the finder/builder/designer? And, is there one (relatively specific/narrow) timeframe for their construction?
Thanks
Peter
Btw - I do love Ganton and Rye and Cavendish. I even love their names!
If I had lots of money I'd find some land close to a river called Rye somewhere not too far from my home, and I would get Tom to build a course -- but using absolutely no machinery!! -- and I would call it Cavendish on the Rye. The clubhouse would be a pub.

[Niall C]

Peter

That's an interesting question on when were most of these greens built ? I suspect it will vary, even on the one course, but I suspect that most would have been done in the 1920's and 30's.

Anyway today's selection to include Glasgow Gailes. Not the biggest, or necessarily the most heavily contoured, but tricky and quite varied.

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

Guys-I have always been fascinated by the lore of the Sitwell Park greens. How much of what is there now resembles Mackenzie's original effort and are those greens in the conversation? Thank you.

Tim,


no Mac left at Sitwell as far as the green are concerned 

[Niall C]

One further thought as I slowly digest all that I've seen in the last week, and that is on Sandwich. One reason why I think the greens are so good is the amount of short grass round about them. As I said before, for a hacker like me, I don't hit many greens in regulation, and scrambling off short grass to such interesting greens allows for so many options.

I think at a lot of courses, either by design or maintenance, they don't allow nearly enough short grass around the green. Of course at Sandwich it helps that the course is of such an epic scale there is enough scope to do that.

Niall   

[Ally Mcintosh]

Peter

That's an interesting question on when were most of these greens built ? I suspect it will vary, even on the one course, but I suspect that most would have been done in the 1920's and 30's.

Anyway today's selection to include Glasgow Gailes. Not the biggest, or necessarily the most heavily contoured, but tricky and quite varied.

Niall

Niall, I almost included Glasgow Gailes in my 10 that I mentioned - the set of greens really elevated the course up a further notch.


I am less sure that the greens mentioned were built primarily in the 20's and 30's. Remember by contemporary standards, Colt and the other golden agers brought in a new style of modern design, where building green pads was much more common (hence Portrush comments above). Quite a few of the ones mentioned I think are good because they are so unusual in their natural contouring. Many predate the 20's.

[Tim Martin]

Guys-I have always been fascinated by the lore of the Sitwell Park greens. How much of what is there now resembles Mackenzie's original effort and are those greens in the conversation? Thank you.

Tim,


no Mac left at Sitwell as far as the green are concerned 

Thanks Jon!

[Duncan Cheslett]

Prestbury has bought in to evangelism and genuinely wants to promote the course. So if any of you GCAers fancy a round I can probably fix it.

If that's the case we really ought to line up a day there soon. Prestbury has much to offer GCAers and I suspect not a lot have seen it.

[Sean_A]

The group has named pretty much all of the ones I thought of when I saw the title.


Ally, the one I did not think of was Ganton ... it's been a long time since I have been there, and I don't remember the greens as a primary feature of the course.  I agree that Portrush belongs in the conversation, even though the greens are more built and more subdued than most of the others in discussion.

Tom,


I hope you can get back to Ganton sometime soon. Before my visit, I knew of the soil, grand bunkering and the strategy it created. But I wasn't expecting such a wonderful set of elegant greens, a few with some major internal contours but many with a large amount of micro-movement, creating a number of really interesting putts and pin positions. It all sat in to the land so perfectly as well.


Also agree on Portrush - they are more obviously built than the other courses I mentioned. Perhaps the perfect example of Colt's "modern" design at the greens and also why recent Colt imitators just don't quite match him.

Like Tom, I am struggling to see Ganton's greens as anything like top 5.  Ally, what gives?


Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

The group has named pretty much all of the ones I thought of when I saw the title.


Ally, the one I did not think of was Ganton ... it's been a long time since I have been there, and I don't remember the greens as a primary feature of the course.  I agree that Portrush belongs in the conversation, even though the greens are more built and more subdued than most of the others in discussion.

Tom,


I hope you can get back to Ganton sometime soon. Before my visit, I knew of the soil, grand bunkering and the strategy it created. But I wasn't expecting such a wonderful set of elegant greens, a few with some major internal contours but many with a large amount of micro-movement, creating a number of really interesting putts and pin positions. It all sat in to the land so perfectly as well.


Also agree on Portrush - they are more obviously built than the other courses I mentioned. Perhaps the perfect example of Colt's "modern" design at the greens and also why recent Colt imitators just don't quite match him.

Like Tom, I am struggling to see Ganton's greens as anything like top 5.  Ally, what gives?


Ciao

Tom didn't say that, Sean. He said he couldn't remember them very well. Neither can you, it seems...

[jeffwarne]

Peter

That's an interesting question on when were most of these greens built ? I suspect it will vary, even on the one course, but I suspect that most would have been done in the 1920's and 30's.

Anyway today's selection to include Glasgow Gailes. Not the biggest, or necessarily the most heavily contoured, but tricky and quite varied.

Niall

agreed. I thought of it also