The Mulligan--Ballyneal Golf and Hunt Club, CO

[Mark Kiely]

Great stuff as always, Jon! Thanks for sharing. Course looks like a blast. I didn't realize Tom meant greens that crazy!

[John Kavanaugh]

Great stuff as always, Jon! Thanks for sharing. Course looks like a blast. I didn't realize Tom meant greens that crazy!

You can't pixelize dreams. We all know the greens will play much better than those pictures indicate, the problem is determining by how much. We have just been bartered a wow moment for a not as bad as it looked discovery. Who really wants to live that way?

[PCCraig]

The Mulligan sounds very neat ("sounds" as I haven't seen any pictures). The trend of building these auxiliary courses with nontraditional pars or number of holes is a great one. I love the idea that a par-3 course allows for the ability to build greens that might be borderline on a "normal" course.

[Ben Sims]

I'm disappointed the link was posted. I understand the utility in posting photos for any number of reasons. In this specific case, I'm not so sure it's really required. I can't think of anything that Mulligan immediately compares to. It's not routed like any short course I've seen. And for the moment, it's far woolier than places like The Preserve or PV's short course. It's brand new, very unique, bar-none the wildest greens I've ever seen save for a few. Those three reasons alone are cause to keep the photos offline. Plus it's a private club and I never asked if I could post photos.

[Alex Miller]

I'm disappointed the link was posted. I understand the utility in posting photos for any number of reasons. In this specific case, I'm not so sure it's really required. I can't think of anything that Mulligan immediately compares to. It's not routed like any short course I've seen. And for the moment, it's far woolier than places like The Preserve or PV's short course. It's brand new, very unique, bar-none the wildest greens I've ever seen save for a few. Those three reasons alone are cause to keep the photos offline. Plus it's a private club and I never asked if I could post photos.

But then just don't click the link  ?


I assume Jon had permission from the club (I think it's something he always gets) so who's decision is it to make? We don't need parental controls for a website that discusses golf architecture and is starved in recent years for exciting new projects.

[Tom_Doak]

But then just don't click the link  ?

I assume Jon had permission from the club (I think it's something he always gets) so who's decision is it to make? We don't need parental controls for a website that discusses golf architecture and is starved in recent years for exciting new projects.

Maybe you do need a dietitian.  From my perspective, you're starving yourselves, because every time we build something new, everyone gorges themselves on photos of it before even a handful of people have played and commented on the course ... and then after a few days of indigestion, you're hungry again.


It bothers me.  I think a good piece of work deserves better than, "It's stunning.  Here's a million pictures."  I've said as much about other projects in the past, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in.

[Sam Kestin]

Sweet fancy moses...what a wild and stimulating set of green complexes those look like.


Kind of shame to me that there would ever be a governor on building a full routing with such crazy contours. I get that there is a cross-section of golfers for whom those would be a turn off but it's hard for me not to love something that looks so dramatically unlike what I see 99% of the time.

[John Kirk]

A few years ago, I posted one picture for each hole in a detailed discussion of Dismal River's Red course, just after it opened.  The general reaction from those who mattered was polite but cool.  Since then, I haven't posted pictures of new courses I visited, and won't in the future.  Beautiful golf course, Dismal River Red is.

Nice description, Ben.  I also played the 12 holes (once) the last time I visited.  It was more fun than I expected, and will be even better when the greens get up to speed.  I'm not much of a devotee of par 3 golf, so I'm not the best person to evaluate such things.  It's a nice addition to my home club away from home, a place I care about very much.

Gotta get a bigger turtle marker for the blind hole.  We couldn't see it.  Oh, and I thought the really wild green (#5 ?) looked like a boot.

[Jon Cavalier]

But then just don't click the link  ?

I assume Jon had permission from the club (I think it's something he always gets) so who's decision is it to make? We don't need parental controls for a website that discusses golf architecture and is starved in recent years for exciting new projects.

Maybe you do need a dietitian.  From my perspective, you're starving yourselves, because every time we build something new, everyone gorges themselves on photos of it before even a handful of people have played and commented on the course ... and then after a few days of indigestion, you're hungry again.


It bothers me.  I think a good piece of work deserves better than, "It's stunning.  Here's a million pictures."  I've said as much about other projects in the past, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in.

We've had this discussion on here many times before, and I understand and respect the fact that there are people who don't want to see photos of golf courses. On the other hand, there are many who do, and as I've always said, as long as people want to see them, I'll post them if I have them. And no one has been clearer than me that even the best photos can't replicate the experience of playing a great course (which Mulligan undoubtedly is).


In this case, I did so via a link rather than posting the photos in the thread. I thought this was the best way to account for both those who wanted to see the photos and those who do not. In my view, and as Alex notes, you can choose not to click the link if you don't want to see the photos. Free choice and all that.


Tom, you know I respect you a great deal, and that I am a huge fan of your work. But I must say, I find your position on this more little confusing, coming from the guy who wrote the original Confidential Guide and who is now publishing an updated version (for which I supplied photos and of which I am a huge fan) in a five volume set, and which features both photos and paragraph-sized blurbs of hundreds of courses, some of which hadn't even opened at the time of the writeup.


People obviously love the CG, as do I, and those who don't can simply refrain from reading it. I fail to see the difference here.

[Tom_Doak]

Jon:


You really do not understand the difference between posting a one- or two-paragraph review, and/or a single photo of a golf course, as a teaser to entice people to see it for themselves ...


versus a detailed set of photos of nearly every hole on a new course?




I have always been a big believer in leaving much of the course a mystery for others to discover.  That's the nature of writing critical reviews ... if reviewers were allowed to copy long clips of movies or pages of books, it might well discourage people from actually going to the movie, or buying the book.  You try to recommend it to the people who are going to like it, without spoiling it for them. 


I believe that posting too many pictures may indeed spoil the experience of discovering a new course, for a lot of people.

[Kalen Braley]

I can see both sides to this thing...no doubt the discovery process is certainly fun.


But the other component to this and doing course reviews in general...  While some are in a great position to travel frequently, many others will likely never get there to see it, much less play it. So its nice to see it...

[Jon Cavalier]

I believe that posting too many pictures may indeed spoil the experience of discovering a new course, for a lot of people.

I don't disagree. But don't people deserve to make that decision for themselves?

[Alex Miller]

I believe that posting too many pictures may indeed spoil the experience of discovering a new course, for a lot of people.

I don't disagree. But don't people deserve to make that decision for themselves?

Not if someone else knows better, apparently... 


Gone are the days of pixi sticks at the movies, but I don't get to as many golf courses as some do so I choose to sustain myself in other ways.

[Ben Sims]

Why isn't a paragraphical description and a single photo or two enough? It's a fair question. I was extremely hesitant to even mention the course; waiting a few weeks after my trip to post. Out on the golf course, if you're a fan of RGD, it's obvious that they really put some thought into the work. It's not just a throwaway set of small holes. But being small, there's not a ton out there. It's seven acres of turf and I t's not a huge master work. It's a digestif, designed for folks that want something fun to do without the strain of 18 more holes on the big course.


Just my opinion.

[Scott Szabo]

We played the full 12 hole course last week at our member guest.  What a variety of holes!  My personal favorites are #5 (a hole in one was had here during the event) #9, with its tiny green, and #11.  Personally, I think the green speeds were fine.  What a great addition to an already impeccable club.

[Stephen Pellegrino]

For those who care, I just figured out a nice 13 hole loop on the Mulligan that starts and finishes at the clubhouse while incorporating all 12 holes of the course in a pretty smooth manner. The rounds starts playing Mulligan #10 from its usual spot. Next is Mulligan #11. Then, using the rear portion of Mulligan #12 tee, you turn 90° right to play a shot into the green of main course #1. It was a fun 130 yards uphill. Then onto Mulligan #1 through #6. At this point you play Mulligan #12 and finish with Mulligan #7 through #9. Super fun with minimal backtracking.

[Jay Revell]

Thanks for sharing. I'm headed out there in September for the first time. Can't wait to see and play both courses. Taking my brother there. Golf is the only language we both speak and I'm pretty sure we have different dialects. I'm excited to spend time with him discovering Ballyneal.

[Bob Montle]

I believe that posting too many pictures may indeed spoil the experience of discovering a new course, for a lot of people.

I'm not so sure about that.  I had read every book I could find and saw just about every picture ever printed of TOC, but it didn't spoil my first experience one iota.  Nothing could have prepared me for the real thing, and I was blown away.

It was the same with N. Berwick.   Before my trip I read up and viewed every pic I could find.
Once I got there almost nothing looked familiar.  It was as if I was seeing it for the first time. 
Everything was a great and pleasant surprise.  Now (after playing) that I had a true idea of the course, I wanted even more to play it again as soon as possible.

[Michael Dugger]

Never have I stepped on a course---having already viewed images of it---and ceased to be surprised at the myriad of things you can't capture in 2D.


Are nudie mags a substitute for actual coitus around here? 

[Jim Nugent]

I think the photo tours are great marketing tools, that help drive more traffic to Tom's courses.  Who among us would not love to go play Tara Iti, after seeing the stunning photos of the course? 

[Ross Harmon]

For those who care, I just figured out a nice 13 hole loop on the Mulligan that starts and finishes at the clubhouse while incorporating all 12 holes of the course in a pretty smooth manner. The rounds starts playing Mulligan #10 from its usual spot. Next is Mulligan #11. Then, using the rear portion of Mulligan #12 tee, you turn 90° right to play a shot into the green of main course #1. It was a fun 130 yards uphill. Then onto Mulligan #1 through #6. At this point you play Mulligan #12 and finish with Mulligan #7 through #9. Super fun with minimal backtracking.

Thanks for the idea Stephen. I was hopeful that there was a 12tee to 1green way to play the course. I'll investigate further next weekend.