R&A Chief Referee Explains Spieth's Drop

[Terry Lavin]

I was driving for the final 2 1/2 hours of the championship and was listening on the satellite radio.  The British anchor was really exasperated as he described all of the machinations involved in deciding where to take his drop.  He never came directly out to criticize the player or the official, but he was clearly rankled.  Once Spieth made bogey, all was forgotten and the birdie/eagle barrage led to some of the most hyperbolic praise I've ever heard on a golf broadcast.  It was quite the "conversion", to be sure.

[Michael Felton]

My guess is that Spieth took it back just far enough that his nearest point from the TIO was on the practice ground side. I imagine that was what a lot of the chatter was about.


I am 100% convinced that John Paramor would not have been bullied into anything. From what I know of the man (granted all second hand), he wouldn't give in to anyone. I think he once gave an exasperated Seve a ruling with which said Spaniard was not amused. Didn't budge.

[Niall C]

I was driving for the final 2 1/2 hours of the championship and was listening on the satellite radio.  The British anchor was really exasperated as he described all of the machinations involved in deciding where to take his drop.  He never came directly out to criticize the player or the official, but he was clearly rankled.  Once Spieth made bogey, all was forgotten and the birdie/eagle barrage led to some of the most hyperbolic praise I've ever heard on a golf broadcast.  It was quite the "conversion", to be sure.

Terry


I doubt we were listening to the same broadcast but totally agree with comments about the hyperbole that followed.


Niall

[David_Tepper]

Further comments on the time it took for the drop, including a video of what happened as it happened:

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/7/25/follow-up-in-defense-of-the-time-it-took-to-sort-out-jordan.html

[Alex Miller]

My guess is that Spieth took it back just far enough that his nearest point from the TIO was on the practice ground side. I imagine that was what a lot of the chatter was about.


I am 100% convinced that John Paramor would not have been bullied into anything. From what I know of the man (granted all second hand), he wouldn't give in to anyone. I think he once gave an exasperated Seve a ruling with which said Spaniard was not amused. Didn't budge.

Ding ding ding! By going back further Spieth increased the likelihood that his nearest point of relief was going to be on the range side of the trucks. Additionally, I believe he took at least two drops, if not three!


1 from his unplayable lie straight back
2 swing relief from the immovable objects (trucks)
3 line of sight relief from the flags planted on the driving range for the event


Whether it was 2 or 3 doesn't really matter, I'm sure the right ruling was made given who was present for this whole thing. Credit to Spieth for keeping a cool head in this situation and making the best decision (shout out to Johnny Miller for yet another incorrect know-it-all comment about re-teeing). Don't hate the playa hate the game! (or just don't hate any of it, it was awesome to watch)

[Kalen Braley]

Still can't seem to get the taste out of my mouth that this was exploitation of the rules, even if legal....all at the expense of Kuchar.


Deliberately dropping between the trucks, knowing it would never be playable and be able to get nearest point of relief just feels off.

[Jon Wiggett]

Kalen,


the 10th was in play for the 9th in previous tournaments but there wasn't the stand there and no real advantage to playing from the 10th fairway.


As for the dune not allowing getting the line correctly. With two people it is dead easy to do so no way they should get it wrong.


Jon

[Ira Fishman]

Interesting tweet today on The Fried Egg about his driver being on ground parallel to his line while he played the shot from the range as an independent rules violation.  Not a rules expert so can only say it is interesting not whether correct.


Ira

[Pete_Pittock]

Interesting tweet today on The Fried Egg about his driver being on ground parallel to his line while he played the shot from the range as an independent rules violation.  Not a rules expert so can only say it is interesting not whether correct.


Ira

I saw the club on the ground on Sunday. It was Not parallel to his line of play. There is/was no problem.

[Pete_Pittock]

Still can't seem to get the taste out of my mouth that this was exploitation of the rules, even if legal....all at the expense of Kuchar.


Deliberately dropping between the trucks, knowing it would never be playable and be able to get nearest point of relief just feels off.

Kalen,
I see no problem, and if I was as smart as Speith I would have done the same thing. Rules help as well as hinder.

[Kalen Braley]

Still can't seem to get the taste out of my mouth that this was exploitation of the rules, even if legal....all at the expense of Kuchar.


Deliberately dropping between the trucks, knowing it would never be playable and be able to get nearest point of relief just feels off.

Kalen,
I see no problem, and if I was as smart as Speith I would have done the same thing. Rules help as well as hinder.

Pete,


I know this is a philosophical issue, but it seems to violate the spirit of the rules in that...


The rules are there to govern play and to keep the game moving along in a manner that protects your playing partner and the field.  Seems to me he deliberately exploited the rule and dropped it in a place he had no expectation to play from and would get "free" relief to a new spot that was advantageous to him.  Perhaps its just a simple rule tweak in this case where if the other 2 options aren't viable/doable, you're taking that walk back to the tee..


In the end, with as much griping as I hear about protecting the field in here, its ironic no one has issue with a jail out of free card to get himself out of a bad position and play from a pristine fairway type lie to boot!

[Kalen Braley]

P.S.


I equate this to Tigers famous call-in-the-troops to move the loose impediment in Arizona...


Was it legal?  Of course.  Did he get a penalty?  no.  Did it violate the spirit of the rules and lead to a rule change?  We all know the answer to that.

[David_Tepper]

"In the end, with as much griping as I hear about protecting the field in here, its ironic no one has issue with a jail out of free card to get himself out of a bad position and play from a pristine fairway type lie to boot!"

Kalen -

He did not have a "get out of jail free card." He took a one stroke penalty. Jack Nicklaus thought Spieth handled the situation very, very well (which is more than good enough for me ).

http://golfweek.com/2017/07/24/jack-nicklaus-says-spieth-made-unbelievable-decision-to-drop-on-driving-range-at-british-open/

As far as I am concerned, Spieth complied with both the rules and the spirit of the game.

DT

[Kalen Braley]

David,


It was clearly a two part transaction, with varying context.


Where he ended up hitting his shot from was in relation to where he got line of sight relief from his drop, not in relation to the original spot where he hit the ball and the ensuing drop point he was entitled to for that penalty.


Even though it was his right to drop between the trucks, he had other places to drop that would have remained in the spirit of the rule.  Why not drop at the base of the dune in front of the trucks, on the same line to the hole?  Why not take two club lengths and play something off the dune?  Why no go to the tee?  It was a violation of the spirit, because he actively used the rules for his own gain at the expense of everyone else and not keeping the action moving along.  We aren't in his head, but it looked like a calculated move to specifically gain an advantage and not pay the full price for his wayward tee shot.

[Pete_Pittock]

If anyone else in the field drove the ball into the exact same spot, they would have had the same opportunity, so IMO protecting the field is not the issue here. By the way I am not a big fan of Jordan because of pace of play issues he draws in a seemingly inordinate amount.

[David_Tepper]

"Why not drop at the base of the dune in front of the trucks, on the same line to the hole?  Why not take two club lengths and play something off the dune?  Why no go to the tee?  It was a violation of the spirit, because he actively used the rules for his own gain at the expense of everyone else and not keeping the action moving along.  We aren't in his head, but it looked like a calculated move to specifically gain an advantage and not pay the full price for his wayward tee shot."

Kalen -

Seems to me (and Jack Nicklaus, as well apparently) that part of "the spirit" of the game is knowing the rules and the options they offer when taking relief. Every competitor is entitled to choose the point of relief they think is most advantageous. Why on earth would they choose otherwise?

Spieth had two of the most senior, knowledgeable rules officials at his side thru the whole, rather complicated process. I see his actions as within both the rules and the spirit of the game. If you don't, we can agree to disagree.

Out of curiosity, have you ever attended a USGA rules seminar?

DT       

P.S. Seems to me we regularly bemoan how few PGA Tour Pro's have a good knowledge of the rules or bother to read the "local rules" at any given tournament. Here is an instance where a pro actually knows the rules and the options they afford him. Why should he criticized for that?

[Mike Sweeney]

DT       

P.S. Seems to me we regularly bemoan how few PGA Tour Pro's have a good knowledge of the rules or bother to read the "local rules" at any given tournament. Here is an instance where a pro actually knows the rules and the options they afford him. Why should he criticized for that?

I love Jordan Spieth and his approach to life. To be specific, I have a Special Needs son and Jordan has a Special Needs sister.


I think Jordan Spieth did EVERYTHING right.


BUT, that does not mean that we cannot learn from the experience. The R&A, USGA, and PGA have the ability to white/red stake those areas in the future. At best, it was 50/50 that they got the drop right. Those trucks are HUGE, and they clearly would have blocked out the mentality of "let's look on the other side" of the trucks when they are parked against a dune.


Jordan Spieth did nothing wrong, now let's see how "Golf" responds.


PS - I saw this with one of your contemporaries in Squash Let have an early breakfast next trip to NYC and I will explain !!

[James Brown]

"I guess I'm not convinced that the nearest point of relief was on the driving range side of the equipment truck."

John K. -

Two of the most senior rules officials in golf were right there with Spieth, assessing the situation and advising him what his options were. If that is not enough to convince you, I cannot imagine what would be enough. 

DT

I think John Kirk is correct, see the image from:

http://www.businessinsider.com/jordan-spieth-open-championship-driving-range-shot-rules-2017-7

That is the great thing about math, it never fails



David Fay explains that TIO is nearest point of relief here:

http://www.usga.org/videos/2013/03/05/david-fay-explains-drop-zones-near-a-temporary-immovable-obstruc.html

Based on this, it looks like nearest relief was on the brown path or the heavy rough between the trucks and the hole.

Just for informational and safety purposes, I measured some of these distances in GeoMeasure.  It's about 280 from the back tees on 13 to where Speith hit from and about 310 to the driving range teeing ground.

[Ken Moum]

Kalen,


I just don't see what spirit was being violated.


He paid the full price of a stroke penalty,  and once he was told that the driving range was in bounds,  he elected to go back on the line from the hole through where his ball was.


If it were me I'd have taken that drop on the first flat ground with decent grass came to, which the photo shows was across the path at the base of the dunes.


It's not Spieth's fault that they parked a bunch of tour vans there.


In fact, it appears to me that the best drop might have been directly under that Titleist truck.


Without the trucks, he'd have been ready to play in a few minutes.


The delay came once he picked hus drop location, because it was no simple task figuring out his relief from the trucks.


I hope you're not suggesting that a player who decides to take the penalty stroke should be deprived of the opportunity to drop where the rules allow.


Oh, and FWIW,  the decision in the ROG regarding getting assistance when moving a loose impediment was NOT changed following the infamous incident at TOC Scottsdale.


If the same thing happened tomorrow,  the player would be allowed to get help as long as it didn't unduly delay play.


And just for clarity,  that decision was one of the few places the rules are clearly aimed at being "fair."


It allows a smaller, weaker player, to get help with a large impediment.  IIRC the question was whether a woman could ey help with a tree limb.

[Jon Wiggett]

Basically, the rules are there to make the continuation of play possible when it is not possible to play the ball as it lies. Spieth's actions were completely in keeping with the spirit of the rules.