R&A Chief Referee Explains Spieth's Drop

[David_Tepper]

Given all the discussion (and some misinformation ) about what happened on #13, this is worth watching:

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/ra-chief-referee-explains-spieth-drop-no13/

[Kalen Braley]

David,


Great link! 


I'm curious, the head rules official said a few times the intent was to keep the course playing as the members play it, hence the range being fair game.  That being said, do the members never take the alternate line on #9, going up the 10th fairway, and back to 9 green?  If so, seems a bit hypocritical in hindsight.


P.S.  Will this new shot be the "Practice range shot heard round the world?"

[JESII]

Kalen,


Safety was the reported issue on 9 & 10.  On this one, it's physically impossible to actually hit a ball that far right and the ground between is death...so, no. I suspect the R & A will do something humorous about it next time...

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,


Safety was the reported issue on 9 & 10.  On this one, it's physically impossible to actually hit a ball that far right and the ground between is death...so, no. I suspect the R & A will do something humorous about it next time...

Jim,


Wouldn't safety also be an issue if players were on the practice area with blind incoming balls?

[Tom_Doak]

I'm curious, the head rules official said a few times the intent was to keep the course playing as the members play it, hence the range being fair game.  That being said, do the members never take the alternate line on #9, going up the 10th fairway, and back to 9 green?  If so, seems a bit hypocritical in hindsight.

The ruling is sound:  if they hadn't thought to designate the practice range as o.b. before the event, they can't decide to make it so DURING the event.  But that should have been their explanation.  Anything about "intent" is a slippery slope for the reason you describe.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm curious, the head rules official said a few times the intent was to keep the course playing as the members play it, hence the range being fair game.  That being said, do the members never take the alternate line on #9, going up the 10th fairway, and back to 9 green?  If so, seems a bit hypocritical in hindsight.

The ruling is sound:  if they hadn't thought to designate the practice range as o.b. before the event, they can't decide to make it so DURING the event.  But that should have been their explanation.  Anything about "intent" is a slippery slope for the reason you describe.

Tom,


I totally understand why they wouldn't make it OB after the event started, but the "play it as the members play it" line he gave multiple times really rang hollow in light of the 9-10 issue.  And philosophically speaking, its safe to say the members aren't playing those holes like the pros do anyways....but I'm just quibbling now 

[Tom_Doak]

I totally understand why they wouldn't make it OB after the event started, but the "play it as the members play it" line he gave multiple times really rang hollow in light of the 9-10 issue.  And philosophically speaking, its safe to say the members aren't playing those holes like the pros do anyways....but I'm just quibbling now 

I agree with you there.  The ruling was technically correct and that's all he should have said.  Attempting to justify it was just a bunch of b.s. so that people wouldn't criticize them for not having made it o.b. to begin with.  But I don't think it should have been o.b., there are plenty of places like this on many golf courses that are not designated out of bounds.

[Wayne_Kozun]

This is maybe a slippery slope but what "should" be designated as OOB?  I always thought that as long as you were on the golf course property itself then you should be in bounds, with very few exceptions.  Are there some general rules that the USGA, R&A, national golf unions, etc have for determining OOB areas?


This reminds me a bit of the issue a few years back when Tiger hit his shot on the clubhouse at Firestone.

[JESII]

I assume tournament organizers approach every course they go to by observing/considering how the members play it and modify it for their event if necessary? In other words, I don't think they start with a blank slate and re-create the wheel...

[Tom_Doak]

This is maybe a slippery slope but what "should" be designated as OOB?  I always thought that as long as you were on the golf course property itself then you should be in bounds, with very few exceptions.  Are there some general rules that the USGA, R&A, national golf unions, etc have for determining OOB areas?


This reminds me a bit of the issue a few years back when Tiger hit his shot on the clubhouse at Firestone.

Wayne:


For my tastes, everything on property should be in bounds, unless there is a compelling safety issue.  One example:  the parking lot should almost certainly be out of bounds.  [If only to preserve Seve's historic use of one.]  For some clubs this might extend to areas right around the clubhouse, but usually those are in play.  Perhaps the various compounds for tournament infrastructure should be o.b., too, if they aren't already.

[Kalen Braley]

Wayne,


My feeling has always been the area designated for golf, and its natural surrounds should be in play.  In that spirit, Tigers instance at Firestone would certainly have been OOB, as I can't imagine it was ever intended for someone to play off the roof, (except for maybe late night, drunk-off-your-ass, betting shenanigans)


I can certainly see why playing up 10 was a safety issue, but it was one the R&A created by putting artificial stands in the way....  I am curious how 9/10 was handled in past championships.

[Jim Hoak]

Bottom line--a brilliant use of the rules to help  himself.  Maybe more players will realize that knowing the rules can work as an advantage!

[Howard Riefs]

Additional coverage of Spieth and the rules of golf…

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-jordan-spieth-saved-the-open-by-mastering-an-obscure-golf-rule-1500895611
 
http://www.golf.com/instruction/2017/07/23/how-jordan-spieth-took-full-advantage-rules-13-british-open
 
http://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/how-understanding-rules-and-options-saved-jordan-spieth-open-championship
 
http://golfweek.com/2017/07/23/jordan-spieths-surreal-bogey-at-13-british-open-insider-view/
 
http://www.golfchannel.com/video/nobilo-spieths-drop-no-13-was-perfect-timeout/

[John Kirk]

I guess I'm not convinced that the nearest point of relief was on the driving range side of the equipment truck.  Think about it.  The truck is oriented lengthwise so it points right of the target.  Therefore, the player needed to move further to gain line of sight relief from the end of the truck.

I told a friend this morning I felt the 20 minute delay was, at a minimum, not in the spirit of a game.

[David_Tepper]

"I guess I'm not convinced that the nearest point of relief was on the driving range side of the equipment truck."

John K. -

Two of the most senior rules officials in golf were right there with Spieth, assessing the situation and advising him what his options were. If that is not enough to convince you, I cannot imagine what would be enough. 

DT

[Kalen Braley]

"I guess I'm not convinced that the nearest point of relief was on the driving range side of the equipment truck."

John K. -

Two of the most senior rules officials in golf were right there with Spieth, assessing the situation and advising him what his options were. If that is not enough to convince you, I cannot imagine what would be enough. 

DT

David,


I think what John may have been alluding to is the perceived giving in to pro/high profile players.  I compare it a bit to the travel call in basketball.  Many high profile players, Lebron being the worst...travels nearly every time he drives to the basket, but gets preferential treatment every time. I'm not saying there was an actual rules violation in this example, but Jon Rahm sure as hell got one a few weeks ago.  And given the amount of time that was spent on this yesterday, once again the perception is that it goes against the spirit of the game with the officials coddling players.


P.S.  No way in hell someone would try to pull this nonsense at the local club championship....

[Thomas Dai]

I guess I'm not convinced that the nearest point of relief was on the driving range side of the equipment truck.  Think about it.  The truck is oriented lengthwise so it points right of the target.  Therefore, the player needed to move further to gain line of sight relief from the end of the truck.
I told a friend this morning I felt the 20 minute delay was, at a minimum, not in the spirit of a game.

I did kinda wonder about this as well at the time but there were rules officials around advising on matters.

I therefore reckon that the spot in the truck area where he would have had to drop was nearer the practice ground than the fairway side.....although strangely enough the practice ground side had nice available lies whereas the other side was I believe gunch. Note also that the trucks were standing on a boardwalk and there were quite a few boardwalks or matting or equivalent walkways around which I imagine were also places he would have gotten relieve from.

By the way, I and the others I was watching proceedings with, reckon he 'fatted' his shot from the range. Terrific up-n-down in the end though and great 'bottle' from then on until the final putt was holed.

As others have said over the decades, the most important club in the bag is the 15th one, the one between the players ears.

Atb

[Jonathan Mallard]

Wayne,


My feeling has always been the area designated for golf, and its natural surrounds should be in play.  In that spirit, Tigers instance at Firestone would certainly have been OOB, as I can't imagine it was ever intended for someone to play off the roof, (except for maybe late night, drunk-off-your-ass, betting shenanigans)

Are sponsor's tents at the Barclay's In our out for Phil?


Or for the 9th at Whistling Straights?

[Kalen Braley]

Wayne,


My feeling has always been the area designated for golf, and its natural surrounds should be in play.  In that spirit, Tigers instance at Firestone would certainly have been OOB, as I can't imagine it was ever intended for someone to play off the roof, (except for maybe late night, drunk-off-your-ass, betting shenanigans)

Are sponsor's tents at the Barclay's In our out for Phil?


Or for the 9th at Whistling Straights?

Jonathan,


I see where you're going with this.


I see it as.... Is it a permanent structure that was never intended to be in the field of play like the clubhouse at Firestone.


Or is it a Sponsors tent that they jammed right next to the green, which would otherwise be "part of the golf course" the other 51 weeks of the year?

[Bill Shamleffer]

*

[Mike Sweeney]

"I guess I'm not convinced that the nearest point of relief was on the driving range side of the equipment truck."

John K. -

Two of the most senior rules officials in golf were right there with Spieth, assessing the situation and advising him what his options were. If that is not enough to convince you, I cannot imagine what would be enough. 

DT

I think John Kirk is correct, see the image from:

http://www.businessinsider.com/jordan-spieth-open-championship-driving-range-shot-rules-2017-7

That is the great thing about math, it never fails



David Fay explains that TIO is nearest point of relief here:

http://www.usga.org/videos/2013/03/05/david-fay-explains-drop-zones-near-a-temporary-immovable-obstruc.html

Based on this, it looks like nearest relief was on the brown path or the heavy rough between the trucks and the hole.

[John Kirk]

David T.,

I hadn't analyzed the situation carefully.  It just seemed logical that if there was one truck there, oriented as it is, then the nearest point of sight line relief is on the other side.

However, the picture shows there is a second vehicle, or tent, or something on the other side of the equipment truck, which meant that the nearest point of relief is in fact on the side of the driving range.  But only because there was another structure next to the truck.

Thanks.

[Sean_A]

I guess I'm not convinced that the nearest point of relief was on the driving range side of the equipment truck.  Think about it.  The truck is oriented lengthwise so it points right of the target.  Therefore, the player needed to move further to gain line of sight relief from the end of the truck.
I told a friend this morning I felt the 20 minute delay was, at a minimum, not in the spirit of a game.

I did kinda wonder about this as well at the time but there were rules officials around advising on matters.

I therefore reckon that the spot in the truck area where he would have had to drop was nearer the practice ground than the fairway side.....although strangely enough the practice ground side had nice available lies whereas the other side was I believe gunch. Note also that the trucks were standing on a boardwalk and there were quite a few boardwalks or matting or equivalent walkways around which I imagine were also places he would have gotten relieve from.

By the way, I and the others I was watching proceedings with, reckon he 'fatted' his shot from the range. Terrific up-n-down in the end though and great 'bottle' from then on until the final putt was holed.

As others have said over the decades, the most important club in the bag is the 15th one, the one between the players ears.

Atb

The announcers on tv said where the drop was wasn't quite right because they could see the overhead.  They also said that on the ground it is virtually impossible to get it right when a 30 foot dune is in the way....and that was the end of it.  To me, it doesn't much matter.  They did their best to get the drop right and the rules guys were there.  if anything, I think Speith may have been at a disadvantage because his angle was more severe than it should have been.


ATB


I don't think Speith caught his shot clean either. 


Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Pretty sure pace of play in golf was not the winner here.
A very different interpretation of undue delay than I've experienced from officials when dealing with rulings and blind shots.




They were asking them to pick up the pace well before that,but weren't officially warned or on the ciock, despite being out of position from the late front nine on.


Well before this 20 minute debacle I saw no attempt by Spieth to speed up play,while Kuchar was playing quite briskly-when he could get on the stage which was generally occupied by "we".


My question is WHY were they not on the clock after being told to pick up pace while out of position?

[Niall C]

Good question Jeff. I wonder, was he asked the question about pace of play in his press conference ?


Niall