[Michael Whitaker]

I've played Birkdale twice and throughly enjoyed the course and experience, but I've always wondered... how did it get flattened? Compared to other true links courses Birkdale's fairways are more similar to a course like Castle Stuart.


What's the story?

[Tom_Doak]

Michael:


I think Castle Stuart is a poor comparison because nearly all of its contours are manufactured.


I doubt Birkdale's were changed radically.  In many instances, you will find that the valleys between big dunes are relatively gentle in contour.  [Trump International in Aberdeen is actually a good comparison.]  It's possible that they did a bit more leveling on those fairways than was done on older links like Hoylake or Troon, but I don't think they bulldozed them all flat.  They just built the golf course on some of the less interesting ground.

[James Brown]

Birkdale's fairways are not all flat, either.  Some have more movement than others and TV always flattens. 

[Sean_A]

JB


I agree with you. The fairways are relatively flat compared to some courses, but many clubs would kill for some of the movement at Birkdale.


Ciao

[Michael Whitaker]

I think Castle Stuart is a poor comparison because nearly all of its contours are manufactured.

Tom - I didn't word my sentence properly... I meant to say that of all the "true" links courses I have played (of which Birkdale is one) the fairways there seem a bit less crumpled than "normal," not unlike Castle Stuart's which are indeed completely manufactured. It made me wonder if Birkdale had been intentionally smoothed out at some stage.

I get your theory about the floor between high dunes being less "crumpled," and Balmedie is a good example... but, were those fairways not artifically smoothed during construction to make the course "fairer" (in an American sort of way) to attract a professional event? I thought I read that somewhere.

I don't remember other non-manufactured courses I have seen with deep dune valleys having less crumpled fairways. For example, in Ireland I didn't think Ballybunion, Carne or Portstuart had less crumpled fairways between their massive dunes. Maybe it's an Irish thing! 

In any case, I wasn't trying to beat up Birkdale as I really like the course and consider it one of my very favorite to play. I was just curious if there has been a concerted effort to "iron out" the randomness one usually finds on a natural links.

[James Brown]

I think Castle Stuart is a poor comparison because nearly all of its contours are manufactured.

Tom - I didn't word my sentence properly... I meant to say that of all the "true" links courses I have played (of which Birkdale is one) the fairways there seem a bit less crumpled than "normal," not unlike Castle Stuart's which are indeed completely manufactured. It made me wonder if Birkdale had been intentionally smoothed out at some stage.

I get your theory about the floor between high dunes being less "crumpled," and Balmedie is a good example... but, were those fairways not artifically smoothed during construction to make the course "fairer" (in an American sort of way) to attract a professional event? I thought I read that somewhere.

I don't remember other non-manufactured courses I have seen with deep dune valleys having less crumpled fairways. For example, in Ireland I didn't think Ballybunion, Carne or Portstuart had less crumpled fairways between their massive dunes. Maybe it's an Irish thing! 

In any case, I wasn't trying to beat up Birkdale as I really like the course and consider it one of my very favorite to play. I was just curious if there has been a concerted effort to "iron out" the randomness one usually finds on a natural links.

Has anyone ever tried to produce a metric of "fairway non-levelness?"  How much do fairway slopes count in the "slope rating?"

[Ally Mcintosh]

Mike,


You might be thinking of the back nine at Hillside although you are probably right that Birkdale had some smoothing happen in places. Most links courses do - Balmedie certainly did - all the holes there were capped and shaped.


The new holes at Portrush also did. The 8th fairway was violent before they built it. Too much so although I'd much prefer to have seen them round the peaks and smooth the troughs in situ....


Whilst dune slacks and valleys are generally smoother than dune ridges, they can still be very undulating.


My own personal preference is that I HATE to see flattening for any other reason than the inability to maintain. Hence mow the fairway out and then alter only where you can't get a fairway mower to cut the grass.


Not many architects think along the same lines I'm afraid.... And in fairness, you sometimes (only sometimes on links courses) have to make sure the low points also drain. Certainly this is the case in dune slacks - Even part of the fairway on the 5th at Kilmore needed raising for this reason.

[Thomas Dai]

Ally,
Interesting what you say about dune slack points, tidal sometimes presumably, and drainage on links courses. Something that 'punters' most likely don't appreciate.
Out of interest, how much did you have to raise the 5th fairway on the Kilmore and how far did you have to move the fill?
Ate

[Niall C]

Mike

I don't know Birkdale but for a lot of these really old links I think you might be surprised how much soil has been shifted over the years. You will recall on Moray Old that the drive on the 1st you have to negotiate between the bank on the right and the large mound on the left that sits between the 1st and 18th fairways. Well the mound on the left didn't exist and originally all that spoil formed an extension of the right hand bank such that you played over it to the green. Colt didn't like that and got them to shift all that spoil to the left thereby creating a division between the 1st and 18th and making the 1st green visible.

All that work was done manually with spaces and wheelbarrows. Likewise when the entire 18th green was lowered by about 5 feet around about then, it also was done by hand. I suspect over the years larger fairway moguls would have been flattened in similar fashion.

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

Mike,


I have addressed this point in other threads. I know Birkdale pretty well and can assure you the fairways have not been flattened.


Jon

[Thomas Dai]

I suspect the practice ground was flattened.
Atb

[Michael Whitaker]

Mike,

I have addressed this point in other threads. I know Birkdale pretty well and can assure you the fairways have not been flattened.

Jon

So, Jon, Birkdale just has "naturally" smoother fairways than most links? It's just a natural feature of the linksland that was found on the site by Hawtree & JH Taylor LTD?

[Josh Stevens]

Was it used by the RAF during the war?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I don't think Birkdale was used during the war, but the course has been considerably rebuilt over the years. I can't find my copy of Links along the Line, which would tell me, but this isn't even the original site. I must do some filing!

[Jon Wiggett]

Mike,

I have addressed this point in other threads. I know Birkdale pretty well and can assure you the fairways have not been flattened.

Jon

So, Jon, Birkdale just has "naturally" smoother fairways than most links? It's just a natural feature of the linksland that was found on the site by Hawtree & JH Taylor LTD?

Basically yes. I know Birkdale pretty well and have spent many hours in the surrounding dunes. The flat bottomed valleys are found in the surrounding dunes which are untouched by man. Originally, when the club moved to the site the course was routed over some of the bigger dunes but this was altered later as it was found to be too extreme. I can understand why they did not then wish to add extra contours into the new holes.


Josh,


the site was never used by the RAF in WWII


Jon

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