Artisan's Clubs in the US?

[Tim Fenchel]

Thanks, Sam for starting this great thread.  One I have been thinking about myself the last few days.


The Artisan's Club idea is just another heaping on top of heaping as to why golf, and perhaps life, is way better over the pond than it is here in these United States.  I've read the articles and seen the specials this week on the Artisan's Clubs and have asked myself the same question...could this work in the US?


Certainly at the exclusive, private American clubs there is no need for such a thing.  $$$ is no option so just pay the turf crew to do their thing.


The other big knock on the idea as has been mentioned is liability and litigation. (As an aside...is this not an issue in the UK??)


I am not an attorney and know next to nothing about the law...however...here is my idea and proposal.


Government entities have a much higher protection under the law than do private individuals or businesses. Certainly they are not completely free of liability but from what I am told there is significantly more protection in place.  I only know this because the line of work that I am in involves public land and allowing recreational users on said land.  The type of projects we deal with run much smoother when the land is public vs private.


SO.


Would an Artisan's Club work if it were in partnership with a municipal course? Any issues that might arise would be more generally covered by the umbrella of the municipality.


I live a Henrik Stenson 3 wood away from the 17th tee of our local muni.  And you'd think that as a resident I would get good greens fees?  Nope.  $45 weekdays and $70 on weekends.


Why not set up a system similar to the Artisan's Club at Birkdale and allow residents to oversee bunkers, (which by the way are horrible kept at our course) all divot repair, as well as ball marks and repairs on greens.  I'd say 80% of the play are no residents .  Keep the Artisan's group small...maybe 30 or 35 members.  Have a waiting list, etc.  Set up some bylaws and a significant volunteer contract. Set up limited play times like the models in the UK. 


It could be a home run all around.


Thoughts? Reactions?

[Daryl David]

Thanks, Sam for starting this great thread.  One I have been thinking about myself the last few days.


The Artisan's Club idea is just another heaping on top of heaping as to why golf, and perhaps life, is way better over the pond than it is here in these United States.  I've read the articles and seen the specials this week on the Artisan's Clubs and have asked myself the same question...could this work in the US?


Certainly at the exclusive, private American clubs there is no need for such a thing.  $$$ is no option so just pay the turf crew to do their thing.


The other big knock on the idea as has been mentioned is liability and litigation. (As an aside...is this not an issue in the UK??)


I am not an attorney and know next to nothing about the law...however...here is my idea and proposal.


Government entities have a much higher protection under the law than do private individuals or businesses. Certainly they are not completely free of liability but from what I am told there is significantly more protection in place.  I only know this because the line of work that I am in involves public land and allowing recreational users on said land.  The type of projects we deal with run much smoother when the land is public vs private.


SO.


Would an Artisan's Club work if it were in partnership with a municipal course? Any issues that might arise would be more generally covered by the umbrella of the municipality.


I live a Henrik Stenson 3 wood away from the 17th tee of our local muni.  And you'd think that as a resident I would get good greens fees?  Nope.  $45 weekdays and $70 on weekends.


Why not set up a system similar to the Artisan's Club at Birkdale and allow residents to oversee bunkers, (which by the way are horrible kept at our course) all divot repair, as well as ball marks and repairs on greens.  I'd say 80% of the play are no residents .  Keep the Artisan's group small...maybe 30 or 35 members.  Have a waiting list, etc.  Set up some bylaws and a significant volunteer contract. Set up limited play times like the models in the UK. 


It could be a home run all around.


Thoughts? Reactions?

Hate to throw cold water on what seems to be an interesting idea, but I am fairly certain any work done on a muni (or a private for that matter) by unpaid persons would fall under wage and hours legislation.  All you have to do is look at the crackdown in the US on the use of staging in high end restaurants.  For those that aren't familiar with staging, it is sort of an unpaid internship for aspiring chefs where they gain valuable experience in exchange for working short stints in the kitchen. Sounds very familiar to the atrisan concept.  Someone works for no wage, but instead for something of value.  In the golf case it would be playing privileges.  Pretty sure that is a violation labor laws.  Here are a couple of articles showing that staging is under attack by the government.


https://www.eater.com/2015/3/16/8210363/restaurant-stage-illegal-stagiaire-kitchen-intern


https://www.eater.com/2017/6/26/15876834/willows-inn-ends-staging-internship-wage-lawsuit

[Mark Chaplin]

If American's are in danger from repairing divots and pitch marks then golf should be deemed a dangerous sport. Bunkers should have railings to stop golfers falling in and fairways fitted with non-stop matting to prevent falls.


The point now of artisans isn't the work they do. 50 guys doing 20 hours each per year is a 1000 hours roughly 0.6 of a full time employee. At RCP the team is 9 green keepers, 0.6 of a guy has modest impact, but useful impact.

[Sean_A]

If American's are in danger from repairing divots and pitch marks then golf should be deemed a dangerous sport. Bunkers should have railings to stop golfers falling in and fairways fitted with non-stop matting to prevent falls.


The point now of artisans isn't the work they do. 50 guys doing 20 hours each per year is a 1000 hours roughly 0.6 of a full time employee. At RCP the team is 9 green keepers, 0.6 of a guy has modest impact, but useful impact.

Artisans were as much about club/local relations as anything.  That isn't really the case anymore, but I do believe at a place like Walton Heath artisans can have influence on local opinion about the heath and how it should be maintained. 

Ciao 

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean as I said in my first bit at Deal artisans are vital for the security of the links and local relations. They all live within a set distance of the club so know what's going on locally.


The club as a whole is just as much an artisans as it is mine. In many ways they have more ownership of the links as they work on the course as well.