[Mark Pritchett]

The course was built for a one owner situation and should remain that way. Not so long ago my son was studying petroleum engineering at a Houston feeder school known as LSU. The price of oil had an oopsie that should recover in another decade or so. If you want to have a bit of fun discussing valuation go through the chart I linked. When the course was grassed in July of 2007 WTI was in the $70's.... a year later $140's. Now it is mid $40. Got to make a change in attitude.


https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/@uprr/@customers/documents/up_pdf_nativedocs/pdf_up_cust_wti-archiv_2002-14.pdf

Having been involved in retail real estate in Victoria-I agree that the area ebbs and flows with oil prices.   

[John Kavanaugh]

My wife and I just had a virtual introspection going through the archive of oil prices over the last decade. Who needs photos when your liveyhood is tied so closely to commodities. $140 oil will cause flashbacks.

[corey miller]

Are there many examples of a wealthy individual owning an estate like course and opening it up to others as a means of helping defray costs? 

It is either a private course (with some form of membership) or a public course.  It won't be both.   

[Chris Pearson]

A little more backstory here:


Wolf Point's original owner, Al Stanger, died on July 30, 2016. Together with his wife Dianna, Al owned Wolf Point Ranch (epic cattle farm), at least one restaurant in the Port Lavaca area, and part of the Port Lavaca air strip (which explains the private air strip just south of the golf course).


I will be surprised if this property goes for anything close to the asking price. This is a tenuous situation, as Don's future choices will be directly tied to the sale of this property (if he hasn't already decided what he's going to do...).

[Mike Hendren]

I have no criticism of anyone posting or anything posted to date, but I find this thread distasteful and out of respect and deference to Mike and Don, perhaps we should tread lightly here, if at all. 

Just a thought.

[Chris Pearson]

I have no criticism of anyone posting or anything posted to date, but I find this thread distasteful and out of respect and deference to Mike and Don, perhaps we should tread lightly here, if at all.

My man.


We're a bunch of guys talking about a golf course.


You'd fit right in at any HR department.

[Joe Hancock]

I have no criticism of anyone posting or anything posted to date, but I find this thread distasteful and out of respect and deference to Mike and Don, perhaps we should tread lightly here, if at all.

My man.


We're a bunch of guys talking about a golf course.


You'd fit right in at any HR department.

Have you ever sat in on any comittee meeting at a private club? Often, a golf course is much more than a golf course...it's a way of life, a place of deep emotions and strong relationships. The golf course is the foundation, perhaps, but it's almost always just one facet of the discussion. Wolf Point, although one man's personal playground, touched many lives and benefited people beyond the opportunity to golf a ball on it's hallowed turf.

[Mike Hendren]

Chris, you are only off by 180 degrees - I wouldn't last 30 seconds in HR and it is widely known within our organization that you don't dare have anyone report to me.  My nickname is '50's Style.

Also, what part of "I have no criticism" and "perhaps" don't you get?   

Cheers nonetheless.

MIke

[Pat Burke]

I'd say the biggest question is whether or not that includes Don's eternal commitment to stay on and take care of the place. Let's not fool ourselves, he's a magician and replacing him could be just like shutting the place down.


Just saying...

This is a very important statement IMO
The ability, vision, and desire to do this, and do it well is rare

[Paul Carey]

A friend of mine and I are definitely interested in buying.  We are putting together our financing over the next couple of days.  Powerball is $187 million and Mega Millions is $232 million.

[Chris Pearson]

A founding member of GolfWRX who has played Wolf Point said the following about Al Stanger:

Al was doing some maintenance on some trees on the property and there was an accident with one of the trees that ultimately took his life.  Really sad he was in great health and had many years left to enjoy what he had built.

[Jerry Kluger]

First, the family decided to put the course up for sale at this time so this discussion is certainly expected.


Second, keep in mind what happened with Ballyneal.  There were many factors there but one very important one was the issue of employees.  Operating a restaurant requires a staff which needs to be kept on full time even though there are very few customers.  Caddies are extremely difficult to find whether they know the game or not.  It is essential to market the course to the cities that are not too far away - Rupert did not promote the course well with Denver residents.


What are the overnight options in the area?

[Chris Pearson]

First, I just found this poignant thread from Don Mahaffey about Al Stanger's untimely death.

(Sidenote: I don't know him, but Don seems like such a genuine guy. It's no surprise Wolf Point exists in a "special" air all its own.)

Second, Jerry asked:

What are the overnight options in the area?

I think there's an RV park pretty close to the course, but that's obviously going to be a non-starter for most everyone.

Port Lavaca is the nearest town, and its overnight options (hotels + dining + entertainment) range from terrible to nonexistent.

Victoria is a little farther away, and while its hotel/motel options are poor, at least the town has a Chick-fil-A

Bottom line? For Wolf Point to see any kind of future success outside the realm of "rich guy's private playground," the property is going to need some stay-n-play options.

[Kalen Braley]

Perhaps the new owner could use some/all of the main rooms in the house for this...assuming its not a move in kinda gig.


P.S.  I'm still trying to figure out how this thread is distasteful other than the usual Kav snipes which are almost default on GCA....

[Ulrich Mayring]

The place was put up for sale, so I find it unlikely that the owners wouldn't want any publicity.

Ulrich

[Matt MacIver]

There's another thread on page one about Congaree - a Uber private course based on philanthropy built in GA by richs guys from TX.  Perhaps they'd want something closer to home and expand the model?  The quality of both  courses are apparently high.

[Mike Sweeney]

There's another thread on page one about Congaree - a Uber private course based on philanthropy built in GA by richs guys from TX.  Perhaps they'd want something closer to home and expand the model?  The quality of both  courses are apparently high.

There is actually an existing model in Texas - http://www.trinityforestgc.com/charities/


I have personal experience with an estate course that was plowed under. I posted this when Ran posted his Wolf Point review:

How can GCA.com do it?

The WP writeup reminds me of Ran's fictitious Carthage Club writeup - http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/the-carthage-club/

Obviously WP is a private course in the very real tradition of it is owned by one person. It seems that the owner via Don and Mike is friendly and maybe there could be a way to create a "Friends of Wolf Point" where people from the "traditional" golf industry, Veterans, and maybe some other worthy causes could get to play and see the course. When the owner dies and/or gets too old to play, the current model is probably not sustainable even at the reasonable $500,000 per year maintenance. Obviously, I don't know this man, his family, or personal situation, but the number of estate courses plowed under vs preserved leans heavily to plowed under. I would personally be interested in being a contributor, and I would guess that "Golf's Most Beloved" can be a Trustee of sorts. Again, not dictating, just trying to spark an idea. [/font]

Tax write-offs are the American way. Perhaps the family and golf can both benefit.

[Steve Lang]

   Mike,


Before Trinity Forest, there was this model on Lake Livingston...  I wonder if WP could displace WP from #1 in TX?

ABOUT WHISPERING PINES GOLF CLUBLocated in Trinity, Texas, Whispering Pines Golf Club® is approximately 88 miles north of Houston situated on a spectacular 400 acre property featuring piney woods, creeks, lakes, natural dunes, and abundant wildlife. The golf experience at Whispering Pines Golf Club® is truly memorable for its members and invited guests. Whispering Pines Golf Club® has a philanthropic golf membership program with each member making an annual contribution to the Spirit Golf Association. Membership in the non-profit Spirit Golf Association consists of individuals, national, corporations, Spirit tournament sponsors, and charitable partners. SGA charities support health related causes and the promotion of amateur golf. The Club is open on a seasonal basis for 15 weeks each in the Spring and Fall seasons. In season the club operations are Tuesday thru Sunday, which provides every member and their guest the best possible guest service and course conditions. So, take a tour of our website and see for yourself why so many people rave about the experience at Whispering Pines Golf Club®…it’s filled with philanthropy, tradition, and prestige.

Whispering Pines Golf Club® 1532 Whispering Pines Drive Trinity, Texas 75862Phone 936.594.4980 Fax 936.594.4985

1494904764-NS_18WHISPERINGNO15A_19395645.JPG

[mike_beene]

Your Dallas links market already joined Trinity Forest and complains it is 10 miles away. It is a lot easier to be on the course at the Broadmoar or even Santa Fe or Aspen than it is to get down there. Airport proximity is key and it would take a lot of private jets to make it work.

[Mike Sweeney]

  Mike,

1494904764-NS_18WHISPERINGNO15A_19395645.JPG

with pic showing here:

[Tom Yost]

I've never read a golf-course-for-sale ad that focuses so much on the architecture/quality of the course, including the striking quotes from Adam and Tom and the emphasis on sustainability and ease of maintenance...

Despite being geographically challenged..

"The ranch is minutes south of the city of Port Lavaca."

 

[David Wuthrich]

Being from Houston and having played both of the WP courses, it is like comparing apples and oranges.  Both are an asset to golf in the state!

[Jim Franklin]

Being from Houston and having played both of the WP courses, it is like comparing apples and oranges.  Both are an asset to golf in the state!

Couldn't agree more.

[Steve Lang]

Being from Houston and having played both of the WP courses, it is like comparing apples and oranges.  Both are an asset to golf in the state!

Couldn't agree more.

Yep, No argument different... but which would the Dallas Morning News rate as #1???

[David Wuthrich]

No question that they would rate Whispering # 1.


Most of the folks that rate for them like that style of course better.


FYI, I am not on their panel.

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