Scottish Open for Cruden Bay 2019 ?

[Niall C]

Ulrich
 
I’ve no idea whether the European Tour would want further changes to be made, assuming that CB is chosen, but when you think back to Royal Aberdeen, Gullane, and Castle Stuart, I don’t recall any changes being made for them holding the Scottish Open that impinged upon the enjoyment of the course for the ordinary player.
 
I would hazard a guess though that the changes made by MacKenzie Ebert to the 9^th in particular haven’t impinged on the ordinary golfers enjoyment of the course and indeed I’d have thought they have turned a connector hole in to something altogether more interesting for players of all levels.
 
Niall

[Michael Tamburrini]

In general the changes at Cruden Bay have been for the better in recent years.  Some puzzle me a bit (losing the bunkers to the left of 11, the extended green at the back of the 5th) but I'm willing to believe there's a reasoning there that my feeble mind can't compute.  And the new ninth is a very enjoyable hole to play.  In fact - as a sidenote - if the course does hold the Scottish Open and the first TV action is not of Rory McIlroy (or whoever the top attraction in the field is) standing on the 9th tee then everyone involved is an idiot.  And I appreciate that it means no two tee starts but I'm sure we can squeeze the days play in over the 18 hours of daylight we get at that point of the year.


But anyway - my main point - the 15th HAS to be involved.  Not just because it's a famous hole and all that jazz but because the bank to the right of the green would be one of the best spectator spots on the entire course - it can't be lost.  In fact, I'd push it back and make it the 16th or even 17th.  Also, I like to moan about professional golf a lot.  I hate the reliance on yardage books.  I hate the ten minute discussions with caddies.  I hate the stupid white forehead every professional golfer has.  But even I reckon that they wouldn't really bother at having to play one blind par three.  Particularly when they've stood on the ninth tee and been able to watch players already play the hole.  And it'd only be between an 8 iron and a wedge to a wide open green - it'd be one of the easiest holes on the course.


Other random thoughts: 3 and 4 also have to be involved.  If everyone is willing to ignore the obvious traffic issues (Cruden Bay has one road that goes through it and two other country lanes - that's it) then finding a way for a few thousand people to walk round 3 and 4 should be easy.  I love the idea of putting the 4th tee in the village - on the bank to the left of the river - which would leave loads of room around the 3rd green (I might be biased here because every time I walk down the road I look at that patch of grass and itch to hit a shot to the 4th green from it, it looks perfect).


The 16th might have to go.  If you want 17th to be interesting (i.e. for the Viking burial ground thingy to not be carried by 50 yards) it'll need a new tee back somewhere near the 16th green. 

[Thomas Dai]

Micheal,
Great points. Terrific idea for the 4th tee. Play the hole across the river as well. How about a bridge from by the 3rd green across the river. Players hit their tee shots and then the walk along the road towards Port Errol and crossing back via the PE footbridge.....a walk of glory...or shame! 🙂
Atb

[Michael Tamburrini]

Micheal,
Great points. Terrific idea for the 4th tee. Play the hole across the river as well. How about a bridge from by the 3rd green across the river. Players hit their tee shots and then the walk along the road towards Port Errol and crossing back via the PE footbridge.....a walk of glory...or shame! 🙂
Atb

Yes!  That's exactly the idea I have in my head: after hitting the tee shot they'd walk along the road and across the main which would take them up to the green - this leaves the normal 4th tees and the path along the 4th free for use by spectators. 

[JBovay]

I think it would be terrific if the Scottish Open comes to Cruden Bay, with as few changes as possible to the course. It sounds like several holes are in consideration for removal from the routing. Here are my thoughts on the possible alterations:


I understand the possible need to remove some holes near the clubhouse (especially 1) for tents or some other reason. No big deal, especially since 8 and 6 on St. Olaf fit into the routing so well.


Removing 3 and 4 would be a mistake, as Michael says. To remove them for crowd-control reasons would be silly. There are numerous tournament courses where spectators' access is limited or not always close to the action. Maybe the tour could give fans the option of seeing the 3rd green/4th tee or the 4th green but not walk directly from the 4th tee to the 4th green. At TPC River Highlands, which was designed to host tour events, fans cannot proceed from the 15th green to the 16th tee. Obviously, nobody's ever discussed taking 12 at Augusta National out of the routing because fans can't access the green. Michael's suggestion of teeing off across the river is intriguing and seems like a good solution.


Is the idea about removing 11 just because the green is near the 10th fairway? Maybe fans could be forced to walk along the right side of 11, away from the 10th? Or a grandstand installed as a backboard? In any case, using the 19th hole as a replacement would be fine.


It would be a shame if 14 and 15 were removed from the routing. 14 has a unique green and there are many blind par 4s in the world, including at Erin Hills, right? If the blindness were seen as a problem, maybe an extra-long flagstick would be a solution?


But most of all, 15 should be included. Can you imagine the buzz that would be generated about the course if the TV commentators are raving about the challenge of a blind par 3? Or debating it? A rock or alignment pole could be moved on a daily basis, on a direct line to the flag.


To Michael's point about 17: maybe the tee could cross over from behind the 16th green?


Messing with the routing too much would seem to foster the perception that the course has issues. Let the players take on the challenges and quirks and see whether they can handle it!

[ward peyronnin]

Any mention of what they wiuld do to overcome the practice field inadequecies?

I am in if it goes there; I think the crowds will be correspondingly reduced and players more immediate: MLB doesn't fill stadiums anymore but TV covers that. There are some world class 2 shotters on St O's and it is a Colt too. I have not played but saw the bones of the changes to 10 and think they are grand.

[Niall C]

Ward


St Olafs a Colt ? I know Simpson laid it out but when did Colt get involved ?


Niall

[ward peyronnin]

Niall

You are no doubt correct. I believe I was recalling an attribution to Colt during a conversation but I only find Herbert Fowler or Tom Morris in Architects of Golf and other sources.
No doubt Frank Pont would know for sure but I yield with apologies and still maintain it is a cracking good romp through the dunes. Especially like six which is a world class four par and 7 the first par three.

[Michael Tamburrini]

I've been doing some thinking on this and on all the various routings and here's the best I can come up with:


1st: Current 1st
2nd: Current 2nd
3rd: St Olaf 8th (played from the normal 3rd tee on the Championship course so it's about 430 yards)
4th: St Olaf 6th (needs a new tee so it plays at least 400 yards otherwise it'll be too easy to hit over the hill)
5th: Current 3rd (played from Championship tee or the 7th tee on St Olaf.  7th tee might be better - it's further right so gives more room up the left for spectators)
6th: Current 4th (from my new tee on the left of the river it's about 220 yards)
7th: Current 5th
8th: Current 6th
9th: Current 7th
10th: Current 8th (played as a 250 yard par 3)
11th: Current 9th (played from the newer tee - NOT the back tee.  It's not worth losing the view for an extra 50 yards)
12th: Current 10th
13th: Current 12th (new tee, just in front of the 11th green so it's about 350 yards)
14th: Frank's hole at the end of the course
15th: Current 13th
16th: Current 14th (Could do with a new raised tee just to the right of the current Championship one.  I'm not sure how spectators work on this hole - would need a new path down the left at the very least)
17th: Current 15th
18th: Current 17th (from a new tee on the mound short right of 16.  The forward tee on the dune to the right of this hole would also need flattened.  From here it'd be a 520 yard par 4 although it'd play a lot shorter and means the 18th tee has a backdrop of the north sea.)


From the Championship course we lose the 11th, 16th and 18th.  The 11th has to go: the right of the green is only 10 yards from the 13th fairway and the green is raised without room for a stand so it'd be lousy for spectators.  The 16th would be a sad loss but allows the 17th to be extended.  And the 17th has more room around the green so it makes sense to finish there.  The course would measure about 6900 yards and be a par 70.