New essay on Tom Doak

[Mark Fedeli]

Tom,


You must've already addressed this somewhere on GCA, but as an intellectual exercise do you ever think about what you would do if you were going to build a course on a completely flat site with zero existing features? The developer will pay you a billion dollars, your budget is unlimited, the soil and climate are ideal, you'll be allowed to decree how all future maintenance is handled, and heck, it even runs along cliffs above the ocean. What do you do?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mark,


His answer is "The Rawls Course."


That said, I would wager that more great designs come from sites with constraints you have to overcome, over a totally blank canvass.

[Tom_Doak]

Mark,


His answer is "The Rawls Course."

Nah.  That's like saying Alister MacKenzie's ideal design was The Jockey Club.  If we'd had a billion dollars to build that one, I'm sure I would have come up with something a little more out of the box.


Fully 50% of the earthmoving at The Rawls Course was done only to hide the apartments and housing on the east and north sides of the property.  I hate spending money like that on stuff that doesn't come into play at all.


The real answer to Mark's question is, I don't know.  It would depend on what I felt like doing at the time.  I don't have a vision of an ideal course in my head.  Mr. Dye did, and it made a bunch of his later courses look too similar for my tastes.  I think my designs are freer because I don't have an ideal.  I prefer to go with the flow, so it's hard to know where I'd start on something like Mark described.


Actually, now that I think about it, I'd start on the coast, make some cuts into the middle of the property to create some ravine-type features, and go from there.  If the authorities would let me! 

[Sven Nilsen]

I simply meant to suggest that in Dr Mac's time golf was still primarily a "gentlemen's" game - the few exceptions like Marion Hollins and Joyce Wethered being precisely that, exceptions. 
 

For the record, this statement could not be more wrong.


Golf in the early part of the 20th century, at least in the United States, was very much a coed game.  The USGA Women's Amateur Championship was first played in 1896.  Many clubs had separate 9 hole course built just for women's play.  Several of the earliest clubs in the country, including Morris County, were founded as women's clubs.  The society pages not only noted mens' matches, but also those of the womens' teams.


Competitive golf on the professional side for women did not evolve until much later, but to think of the game as the domain of men with a "few exceptions" is factually wrong.

[MClutterbuck]

Mark,


His answer is "The Rawls Course."

Nah.  That's like saying Alister MacKenzie's ideal design was The Jockey Club.  If we'd had a billion dollars to build that one, I'm sure I would have come up with something a little more out of the box.

Only that the budget for the Jockey Club was not huge and the soil is less than ideal...

[Peter Pallotta]

Sven - as I just wrote to Niall, who emailed me an excellent recap/explanation, it appears clear that 'the weight of evidence is against me"!
Peter

[Kalen Braley]

I simply meant to suggest that in Dr Mac's time golf was still primarily a "gentlemen's" game - the few exceptions like Marion Hollins and Joyce Wethered being precisely that, exceptions. 
 

For the record, this statement could not be more wrong.


Golf in the early part of the 20th century, at least in the United States, was very much a coed game.  The USGA Women's Amateur Championship was first played in 1896.  Many clubs had separate 9 hole course built just for women's play.  Several of the earliest clubs in the country, including Morris County, were founded as women's clubs.  The society pages not only noted mens' matches, but also those of the womens' teams.


Competitive golf on the professional side for women did not evolve until much later, but to think of the game as the domain of men with a "few exceptions" is factually wrong.

Sven,


I'm sorry, but this sounds too much like the awful justification for segregation..."separate but equal".


Pure horse dung...

[Bill Shamleffer]

I simply meant to suggest that in Dr Mac's time golf was still primarily a "gentlemen's" game - the few exceptions like Marion Hollins and Joyce Wethered being precisely that, exceptions. 
 

For the record, this statement could not be more wrong.


Golf in the early part of the 20th century, at least in the United States, was very much a coed game.  The USGA Women's Amateur Championship was first played in 1896.  Many clubs had separate 9 hole course built just for women's play.  Several of the earliest clubs in the country, including Morris County, were founded as women's clubs.  The society pages not only noted mens' matches, but also those of the womens' teams.


Competitive golf on the professional side for women did not evolve until much later, but to think of the game as the domain of men with a "few exceptions" is factually wrong.

Sven,


I'm sorry, but this sounds too much like the awful justification for segregation..."separate but equal".


Pure horse dung...

Under that reasoning, blacks did not play baseball in the US in the 1920s-1940s.


The segregation of professional baseball was a terrible thing.  But blacks playing baseball was not an "exception", it just did not happen in MLB.

[Kalen Braley]

Bill,


I'm referring to the original context that Peter made that statement in.  If you look at what resources were available to women in terms of land, quality of courses, money to invest, etc back then ...it was crystal clear the men had all the best of everything and the women were an after thought.  And in some ways this "tradition" still continues today.


Hence my separate but equal comment.

[Sven Nilsen]

Kalen:


You are extrapolating a little too much.  Women played golf.  It wasn't just a gentleman's game.  That was the point.


Sven

[Mark Fedeli]

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd start on the coast, make some cuts into the middle of the property to create some ravine-type features, and go from there.  If the authorities would let me!

I knew I was making it too easy by including the oceanside cliffs! Still, I think the real jewel in the question is thinking about having an unlimited budget, but in exchange, having to conceptualize and build every single feature yourself. Especially if you've decided you want to use this once-in-a-lifetime budget opportunity to create something unlike all your previous work.

[Matthew Petersen]

Tom,

I've heard complaints by architects that "so and so gets all the best sites and lucrative projects whereas I am only called in when the property sucks and there is no budget."

So here's your challenge: build a course that shows the complainers that they could do a lot better with what they have.

Ulrich

That's Commonground.


It's not a terrible site, really, but there's a lot against it and the course there previously was a bore.

[Ronald Montesano]

Michael Croley visited our school this week, as a Smith Writer's Fellowship ... fellow. We met briefly and, after I introduced myself, he remarked "We've communicated before." I replied "Do tell..." and he responded, "You're BuffaloGolfer, right? I wrote to you on ... to ask about Doak. You helped me."


As you can imagine, I was impressed with his recall, and discouraged by my failing. Alas...


Nice guy. Terrific speaker. Candid and direct like our Tom. If you get to Denison, look up Michael Croley.

[archie_struthers]

 


Tom , be careful what you wish for...lol


Some of US should never be exposed to further inspection


imagine the horrors