Clubs which are driven by the annual member guest tourney

[Mike_Young]

I belong to a 800 ember DR course built in 1927.  We are in a college town and our board usually consist of 35-40 year old frat boys with stepford wives.  Their main knowledge of golf is from resorts they have seen on incentivized business trips.  We have a great memorial tree program and a high maintenance level but tree infested.  The member/guest will happen next week and things will shut down for 4 days.  96 teams at 1200 bucks per team.  The golf course will be in it's best condition for those 4 days.  Two weeks after the tourney, things will begin for the next year member guest. 
My issue is why does a club try to be it's best when half the players playing those conditions are guest.  Why not focus on the daily member and present club championships and other events in the same conditions?  Am I right to think many other clubs do the same.  Is it right??

[JESII]

How often do you have more than 100 members playing for 3 or 4 days in a row?


Those other events would not likely draw that many unless I'm mistaken.

[BCowan]

We have some people on here that are members of Soup clubs.  100 member rounds 4 days in a row is a lot? 

[BHoover]

I'd join a soup club, if they served great chowder and Italian wedding soup. Chili is a must too.

[Matt Frey, PGA]

For many clubs, a successful member-guest takes club amenities to the next level and showcases all aspects of the club to the guests. They're basically big marketing events.

Think about it: the club wouldn't have to have more than a couple of guests apply for membership for the event to be deemed a success. Depending on the facility, one new member represents tens of thousands of dollars each year.

I am aware of some clubs that have a rule that stipulate you cannot host the same guest for more than one or two years in a row to help increase their reach (and protect the field against career sandbaggers  ).

[Mike_Young]

You guys r missing my point.   The guys playing as guest are mostly from different cities and r not prospects for membership.    We don't need the revenue plus it is a wash.    My thought has always been the club should give the members the same conditions they give to 96 guys that week.   I see it in these top southern clubs often.   

[JESII]

Same conditions every day all year Mike?


I thought you suggested that the member only events should be the priority. I asked if any of those events hosted more member rounds that the member guest does...being 96 X 4

[Mike_Young]

Jim. It is the largest event.   I'm saying the club should focus on the overall golf year round and not just 4 days of drinks playing w inflated handicaps. 

[BHoover]

Jim. It is the largest event.   I'm saying the club should focus on the overall golf year round and not just 4 days of drinks playing w inflated handicaps.

You should make your opinion known to your club.

[Matt Frey, PGA]

Jim. It is the largest event.   I'm saying the club should focus on the overall golf year round and not just 4 days of drinks playing w inflated handicaps.

You should make your opinion known to your club.

More importantly, your committees and boards.

Additionally, in some markets, member-guests are akin to the green speed races. If enough members can argue successfully to the committees and board that putting more effort and budget into the course throughout the year rather than one week will have a more positive business impact on club than the current member-guest does, you may be able to make that change.

[Kalen Braley]

Mike 96 teams at $1200 per whack is $115k and you're saying that's chump change? 


What club do you belong to that doesn't want $115k for a little over half weeks worth of work? 

[BCowan]

Mike 96 teams at $1200 per whack is $115k and you're saying that's chump change? 


What club do you belong to that doesn't want $115k for a little over half weeks worth of work? 

Chump change for a club that has 800 members.  $50k monday outings at top tier privates equate to like $8 a month in dues.  I know clubs in my area that have turned down Monday outing because they don't want ball marks and chops hacking up the place. It's a big world out there and being in a College towns is lucrative these days. 

The problem is the 2nd and 3rd tier clubs that don't know they are at that level that try and emulate all this stuff. 

A club that can't get 96 players 4 days in a row is either a soup club or is in a death spiral.  Others on here would cry oversupply because they can't comprehend how others live. 

[Niall C]

Mike's basic point is that clubs get their course to peak for a specific event that a lot of members might not play in, and if they do they have to pay extra for the privilege. In the UK the members guest events aren't nearly as big a deal as the US but we still have events that clubs tend to get their course to peak for. In the case of my club it is a couple of annual top amateur open events they have every year where 95% are non members.


How the members wish they could get that level of conditioning for the normal saturday fourball.


Niall

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mike's basic point is that clubs get their course to peak for a specific event that a lot of members might not play in, and if they do they have to pay extra for the privilege. In the UK the members guest events aren't nearly as big a deal as the US but we still have events that clubs tend to get their course to peak for. In the case of my club it is a couple of annual top amateur open events they have every year where 95% are non members.


How the members wish they could get that level of conditioning for the normal saturday fourball.


Niall

Id be interested to know which clubs have a Member/Guest or some sort of Invitational that includes guests, in where it isn't viewed as thee event of the year. Ive never worked at one. All clubs what to show off to their guests.

[Mark Pritchett]

If you have to ask.....

[Kalen Braley]

Ben,


I suppose we'd have to have specifics in terms of annual operating budget to establish percentages


But even the raw math means it saves every member $144 per year in dues... and if that's nothing to you for a 4 day party at optimal course condition then I guess its easy to grin when your ship has come in!

[SB]

I belong to a 800 ember DR course built in 1927.  We are in a college town and our board usually consist of 35-40 year old frat boys with stepford wives.  Their main knowledge of golf is from resorts they have seen on incentivized business trips.  We have a great memorial tree program and a high maintenance level but tree infested.  The member/guest will happen next week and things will shut down for 4 days.  96 teams at 1200 bucks per team.  The golf course will be in it's best condition for those 4 days.  Two weeks after the tourney, things will begin for the next year member guest. 
My issue is why does a club try to be it's best when half the players playing those conditions are guest.  Why not focus on the daily member and present club championships and other events in the same conditions?  Am I right to think many other clubs do the same.  Is it right??

So the cost to bump the levels up for one week is something like $5K, and they get $120K of revenue out of it.  Pretty good return in my estimation.   Plus I've got to imagine there's a lot of members who wouldn't be members if they didn't have a reason to come, like the member/guest.  If there's 50 of those guys, at 5K a year (a guess), that's another $250K a year.  [/size]The cost to maintain the course at premium conditions for the rest of the year is something like $400,000.  Of those 800 members, how many are REAL regulars, 80?  Are you saying that you want to give up the $350K a year in revenue that benefits 800 members or add $400K in expenses to benefit 80?  What was the question again?

[Mike_Young]

Mike's basic point is that clubs get their course to peak for a specific event that a lot of members might not play in, and if they do they have to pay extra for the privilege. In the UK the members guest events aren't nearly as big a deal as the US but we still have events that clubs tend to get their course to peak for. In the case of my club it is a couple of annual top amateur open events they have every year where 95% are non members.


How the members wish they could get that level of conditioning for the normal saturday fourball.


Niall

Id be interested to know which clubs have a Member/Guest or some sort of Invitational that includes guests, in where it isn't viewed as thee event of the year. Ive never worked at one. All clubs what to show off to their guests.

Tony,
I would think your place would be a good example.   It is a golf course that attracts golfers and you give them premium playing conditions.  The average frat boy at our place plays golf to party.  Really doesn't spend much time trying to get better and is proud to be able to shoot lower than his higher handicap when needed.  Our club makes most decisions based on the member guest.  UNDERSTAND..it does not make money form the member guest.  They get deals on food, close to cost on the $400 dollars of tee gifts and gift certificates.  I have no problem with a good member guest, which it is, but it should not be the main factor that drives a club and it does in many places.  A nice curved wide screen above a urinal is much more critical than a few trees that hang out into a fairway in front of a tee.  I just think all of this is more common than people think.  As for those who suggest I contact the board etc...THANKS...we know how to bitch to get things done....That was not my question...I was asking how many clubs have similar issues...

[Mike_Young]

I belong to a 800 ember DR course built in 1927.  We are in a college town and our board usually consist of 35-40 year old frat boys with stepford wives.  Their main knowledge of golf is from resorts they have seen on incentivized business trips.  We have a great memorial tree program and a high maintenance level but tree infested.  The member/guest will happen next week and things will shut down for 4 days.  96 teams at 1200 bucks per team.  The golf course will be in it's best condition for those 4 days.  Two weeks after the tourney, things will begin for the next year member guest. 
My issue is why does a club try to be it's best when half the players playing those conditions are guest.  Why not focus on the daily member and present club championships and other events in the same conditions?  Am I right to think many other clubs do the same.  Is it right??

So the cost to bump the levels up for one week is something like $5K, and they get $120K of revenue out of it.  Pretty good return in my estimation.   Plus I've got to imagine there's a lot of members who wouldn't be members if they didn't have a reason to come, like the member/guest.  If there's 50 of those guys, at 5K a year (a guess), that's another $250K a year.  The cost to maintain the course at premium conditions for the rest of the year is something like $400,000.  Of those 800 members, how many are REAL regulars, 80?  Are you saying that you want to give up the $350K a year in revenue that benefits 800 members or add $400K in expenses to benefit 80?  What was the question again?

SBusch,
Who said only $5000 was spent?  Hell they spend $20,000 on tents.  This is a breakeven cost event and I have no problem with that.  None at all.  It just should not be the basis for most of a clubs decisions during the year. 

Niall,
Where did I mention whether or not it was the event of the year?  I said most of our decisions are based on member guest tourney. 

Kalen,
This doesn't cost or make money for the other members.  It's a good tourney.  It should not drive the club decisions for the year. 

[Dave McCollum]

Sadly, our member guest dried up with the recession.  Each year fewer and fewer players after robust participation.  We need the business and new members, yet we now question whether it is worth the effort given the results.  Mike, you should probably welcome the popularity and not question the priority of efforts about where to spend it because the alternative is not as desirable.  Having people desiring to play your course, on a special invitation, is better than handing out coupons to invite a guest.  Every place is different.  Your thoughts seem reasonable given your perspective.  They also seem like 1%er problems to a guy like me.  We are a decent course, but it is very difficult to make it work.  How to spend the money is not a problem.  How to get more is essentially our concern because we need it desperately.       

[Garland Bayley]

Mike 96 teams at $1200 per whack is $115k and you're saying that's chump change? 


What club do you belong to that doesn't want $115k for a little over half weeks worth of work? 

What percent of that does the club get? My impression is that big entry fees simply mean big prizes for the winners, and other finishers in the money. Perhaps the club makes more money from drinks than from golf.

[John McCarthy]

Is the big $$$ Calcutta just a Chicago thing? 
Because those still get out of hand to this day. 


The club championship at the club I caddied at was where they dried out all the greens and grew the rough.  One of my fondest memories was bunting the Class C member around for two years in a row to the championship.  It was "hit it here and do not hit it hard" three weekends in a row.  Make a 22 play like a 17...and wait for the other guy to screw up. 

[Mike Sweeney]

96 teams at 1200 bucks per team. 

96 x $1200 = $115,200 + other stuff


Mike,


I am sure you took some very complicated classes at Georgia Tech, but high school math covers this


Honestly, it sounds like a great club, and I am sure I would skip this tournament.

[jeffwarne]

96 teams at 1200 bucks per team. 

96 x $1200 = $115,200 + other stuff


Mike,


I am sure you took some very complicated classes at Georgia Tech, but high school math covers this


Honestly, it sounds like a great club, and I am sure I would skip this tournament.

Always amazed at how UK/Irish clubs can throw tournaments/Opens for a 10-20 Euro/pound fee, and are fully subscribed and a good time is had by all.
Does anybody really give a shi$$ about their $400 keeping up with the Jones' tee gift (I mean enough to actually pay for it)?

[Bill Raffo]

My two cents...It's important to find a course and a culture within the same golf club, that align with your sensibilities of what golf and a club should be.  If the other 362 days you're happy and appreciative, then you're in the right club and need to examine why you can't just get out of the way and let the young bucks have some fun. If there are a bunch of other issues, you're in the wrong club.