Most Diffucult Closing Hole In Scotland?

[Michael Whitaker]

I am not one to celebrate a difficult golf hole, just for difficulty's sake... but, Mr. Martin Bonnar and I had an interesting discussion today during our match at the Jubliee Course in St Andrews:  what is the most difficult closing hole in Scotland?

Dornoch's 18th is certainly difficult... so is the closing hole at Old Moray. But, we felt the most difficult to be the last at Leven Golf Club... a brutal finish to a round (even if Niall Carlton did par it on his last visit!).

Any other candidates?

[Mitch Hantman]

The New Course comes immediately to mind.  Also, consider Brora #18.  I might put that one up against any.  Boat of Garten's finishing hole is very strong. 

[Tom_Doak]

Boat of Garten is a good one!  So is Leven.


The first that came to mind for me was Lossiemouth.


But Jean Van de Velde would disagree with us all.

[Mike_Clayton]

I remember twice having to par the 18th at Leven to make The Open qualifying (84 and 95) and did it reasonably easily both times - albeit with a 4 iron second in '95. I'd have had a lot more trouble with the 18th at Carnoustie.
The 18th at Muirfield off the new back tee isn't so easy either.

[Pete_Pittock]

For the courses I've played, I'd agree on Carnoustie, but Royal Troon comes close.

[Matthew Essig]

But Jean Van de Velde would disagree with us all.

+1


When my father and I played Carnoustie, we played the first 12 holes or so in a storm: wind, rain, occasional thunder.
We were playing decently considering the conditions, around or slightly better than bogey golf. The sun broke out and wind stopped by 15. We both bogeyed 16, parred 17. We were feeling good.


He made a double and I made a triple on 18.

[Bill_McBride]

I am not one to celebrate a difficult golf hole, just for difficulty's sake... but, Mr. Martin Bonnar and I had an interesting discussion today during our match at the Jubliee Course in St Andrews:  what is the most difficult closing hole in Scotland?

Dornoch's 18th is certainly difficult... so is the closing hole at Old Moray. But, we felt the most difficult to be the last at Leven Golf Club... a brutal finish to a round (even if Niall Carlton did par it on his last visit!).

Any other candidates?

If you're talking about our 2015 visit, Niall was home in two heroic shots but sadly 3-putted. Pity.

[Bill_McBride]

How would you compare the New and the Jubilee?  I've enjoyed several rounds on the New but never the Jubilee.

[Anthony Gholz]

Troon 18th into the wind, brutal.  Carnoustie 18th second, but wind from anywhere and everywhere

[Jay Mickle]

The final hole before I have to catch a plane home.

[Evan_Green]

I don't know if there is a more intimidating closing hole in the world, let alone Scotland, than Carnoustie..


It's is one of my favorite holes to watch in the Open Championship for sheer drama when all is on the line.


There is just so much that can go wrong with any shot.


Examples: Van De Velde in 1999 and Harrington/Garcia in 2007 (and Miguel Angel Jimenez in 2016 Sr Open) give some examples of world class players having lots of trouble with this hole. How about for a club golfer...in the wind...yikes.


If I had to par the last hole of a course to win a tournament, it would be my last choice... just my 2c

[Tim Gallant]

Trump Scotland?! I defy anyone to head back to the tips and make a 5...or a 6 into the wind.

[David Davis]

Trump Scotland?! I defy anyone to head back to the tips and make a 5...or a 6 into the wind.

Tim, fresh off a visit this last weekend. I didn't play the tips on the course as they were far too much for me in the wind. However, I did pick two holes to play the tips from more for the sake of masochism.


The 18th was one of them and at 650 yds it's a tough one. It was playing straight into a 2 club breeze. I hit driver, (right that didn't quite make the fairway but had an excellent lie. 3 wood which was literally creamed if I do say so myself, then rescue club missing the green just right and pin high. I chose to putt as it was a semi short side miss with a high slope and walked off with a tap in par 5 that felt like an eagle 3.


If only the rest of my round would of went so supple.

[Tim Gallant]

Trump Scotland?! I defy anyone to head back to the tips and make a 5...or a 6 into the wind.

Tim, fresh off a visit this last weekend. I didn't play the tips on the course as they were far too much for me in the wind. However, I did pick two holes to play the tips from more for the sake of masochism.


The 18th was one of them and at 650 yds it's a tough one. It was playing straight into a 2 club breeze. I hit driver, (right that didn't quite make the fairway but had an excellent lie. 3 wood which was literally creamed if I do say so myself, then rescue club missing the green just right and pin high. I chose to putt as it was a semi short side miss with a high slope and walked off with a tap in par 5 that felt like an eagle 3.


If only the rest of my round would of went so supple.

Doh! Foiled at the first reply

[Niall C]

Bill


Re Leven; Happy memories……apart from the 3 putt ! I recall getting on in two one other time, sadly with the same result. I think it’s safe to say I wouldn’t be taking that shot on if I was playing a medal. Better chance of a four by laying up and going for the up and down.


Tom


Carnoustie was the one that sprang immediately to mind also. Long, decent carry from the tee, well bunkered green with water in front and OB to left and rear. I can’t think of one more difficult.
Moray Old is definitely my favourite though and yes, I am biased. In all the times I played it, I rarely parred (can’t ever recall a birdie), often had bogey but can’t recall too many times I had a really big number. I always though looked forward to playing the hole.


Pete


Interesting that you chose Troon. I’ve been fortunate to play there quite a few times and there are definitely more difficult par 4’s on that course. Of course it depends on the conditions but I’ve played a chip and run for my second from just off the green. I can’t recall ever doing that at Carnoustie or Moray Old for that matter.
 
Niall

[David Davis]

BTW Loch Lomond has a tough closing hole into the wind as well, IMO much tougher than most of the links courses mentioned.

[Thomas Dai]

Carnoustie's 18th takes some beating for difficulty.
For a par-3 finish, the 18th at Brora does as well.
For the wobbly knee factor....maybe even the 18th at TOC when loads of folks are leaning over the rails, all with their eyes focused on those playing up the 18th.
Atb

[David McIntosh]

Leven immediately sprung to mind when I saw the thread title.

In the interests of adding a new one, I'd also put forward the 18th at Musselburgh. For those who haven't played it, from the medal tees a c.475 yard steeply uphill par four usually played into the prevailing wind. The fairway is pretty narrow with a solitary fairway bunker on the right hand side in and around the tee shot landing area. After the relatively flat land of probably around 200 yards to the bunker, the incline begins and there are two flatter steps/shelves in the fairway before reaching the green. The green slopes from back to front, is guarded by three front bunkers to the left and right and is raised slightly with fall offs at the back and beyond the bunkers - just to make that up and down even more difficult!

It's not a great finishing hole by any means but everyone will have seen plenty of closers of this type where the main intent is to get the golfer back to the clubhouse overlooking the course at the top of a hill.

[Jon Wiggett]

Michael,


when I played Dornoch last week the 18th was a drive and 3/4 wedge but it certainly is a different challenge with a mid iron in your hand. As for the hardest closing hole it is hard to see past Carnoustie though Moray Old or Loch Lomond are also good shouts.


Jon

[Ben Malach]

Bill:


The 18th at the Jubilee is reminiscent of the entire course a strong penal 4. That can play as a monster into the breeze. The fairway is narrow as there is both right and left for the start of the fairway.  The landing area is flanked by bunkers and the green is well protected with bunkers up both sides of a well contoured green. The putting surface is fast and true with winds sometimes coming into play on putt due to the exposed nature of the greensite and the speed of the green.


Thread:


As for the topic I always found the 18th at the medal course in Monifieth to be a challenge. It is a good par 530 from the medal tee. The fairway is narrow and well bunkered. The green is narrow and pretty interesting with bunkers flanking the entrance. The green is also sited within view of the club house so there can be some pressure on putts if you get a small gallery.

[Marty Bonnar]

Bill


Re Leven; Happy memories……apart from the 3 putt ! I recall getting on in two one other time, sadly with the same result. I think it’s safe to say I wouldn’t be taking that shot on if I was playing a medal. Better chance of a four by laying up and going for the up and down.

I could have sworn you made par? Some other time?


Cheers
M.

[Michael Whitaker]

Wow! How could we have forgotten Carnoustie... I just played there on Monday!!!     


I guess it was because we finished into a stiff wind and everyone basically played it as a par 5, with one "birdie 4", two "par" 5s and 1 "bogie" 6 in our four-ball.

That is definitely one dangerous hole with trouble everywhere. 

[Pete_Pittock]

Pete


Interesting that you chose Troon. I’ve been fortunate to play there quite a few times and there are definitely more difficult par 4’s on that course. Of course it depends on the conditions but I’ve played a chip and run for my second from just off the green. I can’t recall ever doing that at Carnoustie or Moray Old for that matter.
 
Niall

I actually chose Carnoustie, but the times I played Troon were against the wind. Never played Moray Old.

[Ben Stephens]

I would have said the 18th at Carnoustie straight away.


Think of other challenging 18th holes in Scotland - Lundin Links comes to mind like Leven it is tough closing hole with quite a wide fairway and raised green with OOB left and Clubhouse right it is not for the faint hearted.


Another was the Renaissance it was quite long as I can remember.


Most courses I have played in Scotland end with a medium to soft finish.

[Andy Shulman]

Another vote for Lundin Links.  It was the one that came to mind first for me, the combination of the length and the OOB left being the keys.  Carnoustie's 18th, however, is in a class by itself.