What have you learned about golf course architecture lately?

[Jason Topp]

Playing a local course a few years ago, I found a tiny bunker behind the 10th green.  It was maybe 3 feet in diameter, almost never came into play but gave me a chuckle each time I passed it.  I knew that the architect, Bobby Weed, had thought about the small stuff.  I imagined the one player who ever wound up in that bunker and his irritation at facing an awkward and "unfair" recovery from a spot that appears to yield a simple chip. 


The last time I played the hole, the bunker was no longer.  Getting rid of that bunker was no doubt a practical decision.  I doubt anyone else thought of the thing other than to think it stupid.   To me a special detail and a mark of a craftsman with a sense of humor has disappeared. 


Enough about me.  What have you learned lately?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Why, just today I learned that a stunning clubhouse visible from the property adds a sense of occasion to the course. Such is emphatically the case at Whistling Rock in South Korea.

[Rees Milikin]

Stand bags slow down the game

[Pete_Pittock]

I will be the only archienerd on our greens committee.

[Sean_A]

I guess in the past 3-5 years the thing which has hit me the most is that conditioning and cut lines, if done well, are an extension of design. I never worried much about conditioning and still don't, but in the rare moments when a good super and good weather meet for more than a few days at a time, it can be a magical experience.

Its not something I learned about architecture, but how to look at architecture.  In the past few years I have been trying to look at what is in the ground rather than look for what I like. Its tough to do.

Ciao

[JJShanley]

I think I understand fairway bunkering better, specifically how having a bunker near the preferred line of play from the tee shot encourages you to decide whether you want to take on the hazard to leave an easier approach shot.  Followed closely by the use of angled greens to encourage the player to think about which side of the fairway from which you'd want to approach the green.

[Ira Fishman]

Last week, I played three Ross courses on consecutive days.  It was the first time I truly appreciated the attractiveness and quality of his short and mid range downhill Par 3s.  Particularly eye opening was how the greens have a variety of pin locations each of which changes the hole in a meaningful manner in terms of club selection, ball flight (not that I actually can pull off the ideal one), and difficulty of chips and putts.  Also a bit proud that my wife birdied Number 3 at Pine Needles and Number 2 at Mid Pines.

[Brett Wiesley]

I just got back from a few days at Ballyneal, and while all the holes are fantastic, the 8th stood out on this trip.  I think you can learn all needed about great strategic design by playing this hole a few times.

[Thomas Dai]

Not recently, but a few years ago establishing where the pre-1930 mens tees were and playing from there with a handful of hickory clubs and an appropriate ball.
Lots to learn about why features were put where they were and when you consider the construction and maintenance methods/costs of the time why features were built the way they were. History can usually tell you quite a bit.
atb

[Peter Pallotta]

I've learned how picky I am about drainage, and how adamantly I equate good drainage with good design. Unless there's been a major downpour in the last day, I don't want - and don't think I should need to - step gingerly along any fairway so as to not soak my feet on my way to an otherwise perfect tee ball that is half sunk where it landed and is now covered in mud. I've learned that I believe this: that no golf hole is a great golf hole if it does not drain well.
Peter

[Mark Pearce]

Sometimes really significant improvement can be cheap.  My home club has recently appointed a firm of architects to consult on its bunkering.  I have been complaining for years about the width of our fairways.  After one walk round the consultants commented on the ridiculous narrowness of some holes.  Two days later half a dozen fairways were at least 10 yards wider and the course was hugely improved.  The extra cut wasn't pretty but it's settling in now.  I just hope they don't stop there.

[Niall C]

What I’ve learned is the power of aesthetics when it comes to the consideration of golf courses for a lot of people. Not only the internal factors on the course but also the external views. I used to think that was just an overseas visitors view of things and that us locals were impervious as to whether the backdrop to a green was the Kessock Bridge or simply the local caravan park.


I’m not so sure now. The most recent Golf World UK magazine gave its Top 100 Scotland list. As well as the usual sea-side bias (Gleneagles Kings at 19 was the highest inland course) there was also a distinct lack of obviously urban courses. Can’t recall off hand the wording of the criteria but I think it was 20 or 25% for the aesthetics. Is this what course design has come down to, having a nice view ?
 
Niall

[Patrick Scanlan]

This principle, written clearly and concisely by Geoff Ogilvy in Golf Magazine, is something that I'd known subconsciously, but examining courses through this prism has given me a much finer appreciation for superlative holes.

All in all then, the drive epitomizes perfectly a simple, but hugely effective strategic principle: the more you “take on” a hazard, the easier every subsequent shot becomes. But play away from the trouble and the angle for the next shot gets worse, something that is true on Pebble’s 18th both off the tee and for the second shot.   

Having joined this board as an "informed amateur," for lack of a better phrase, I've felt that my sophistication about the tenets of GCA has increased immensely, which is a fun and good thing. That and reading Tom Doak's Anatomy, which is now equally dog eared and indispensable.


http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/geoff-ogilvy-what-makes-18th-hole-pebble-beach-great

[Kalen Braley]

Pat,


Interesting you should mention PB 18.  Its been discussed on here before, but it really has become a better hole with advance in technology.  Given so many on tour can reach it now you see a lot more exciting shots into that green in 2...and with so many possible outcomes, its been a fantastic finisher now more than ever..

[Jeff_Brauer]

I've learned how picky I am about drainage, and how adamantly I equate good drainage with good design. Unless there's been a major downpour in the last day, I don't want - and don't think I should need to - step gingerly along any fairway so as to not soak my feet on my way to an otherwise perfect tee ball that is half sunk where it landed and is now covered in mud. I've learned that I believe this: that no golf hole is a great golf hole if it does not drain well.
Peter

Yay, you!


And seriously, I still learn something every day, still study golf courses in the field and on the net, and now probably have more new ideas than I will ever have golf holes to build moving forward.


As Randy Thompson and I discussed not long ago, the real lesson I will have to remind myself of is not to cram too many ideas into one hole......

[Jason Topp]

I just got back from a few days at Ballyneal, and while all the holes are fantastic, the 8th stood out on this trip.  I think you can learn all needed about great strategic design by playing this hole a few times.

Brett - is that the short par 4 with a bit of a double fairway?

[Jason Topp]

I guess in the past 3-5 years the thing which has hit me the most is that conditioning and cut lines, if done well, are an extension of design. I never worried much about conditioning and still don't, but in the rare moments when a good super and good weather meet for more than a few days at a time, it can be a magical experience.

Its not something I learned about architecture, but how to look at architecture.  In the past few years I have been trying to look at what is in the ground rather than look for what I like. Its tough to do.

Ciao

Sean - My course, Windsong Farm, is a good example of your first point.  It is somewhat links-like in that it is exposed to wind, features many ground game options, deep bunkers and wide fairways.  The course plays very differently every day and reaches its peak when a dry cool period gives the firm ground a bit of a shiny appearance.  When it rains a lot, it is pretty much like other courses. 

Could you expand a bit on your second point?  I am not quite sure what you mean.

[Patrick Scanlan]

Pat,


Interesting you should mention PB 18.  Its been discussed on here before, but it really has become a better hole with advance in technology.  Given so many on tour can reach it now you see a lot more exciting shots into that green in 2...and with so many possible outcomes, its been a fantastic finisher now more than ever..

That makes sense. I remember being thrilled by Vaughn Taylor's second shot there last year, a rare occurrence for layups. And rereading my original post, Christ, that's overwritten. Call it nerves.

[Jason Topp]

I think I understand fairway bunkering better, specifically how having a bunker near the preferred line of play from the tee shot encourages you to decide whether you want to take on the hazard to leave an easier approach shot.  Followed closely by the use of angled greens to encourage the player to think about which side of the fairway from which you'd want to approach the green.

JJ - you describe a fundamental tenant of strategic design.  One of my favorite courses has a bunch of fairway bunkers precisely where I would otherwise aim a tee ball.  One of the design challenges today is that a good drive can be 180 yards for my father and 280 for my son.  The standard response to such a conundrum are a bunch of tee boxes, but if I am playing with my father and my son I want to play from the same tee box so I can provide appropriate commentary for each of them.   

[Jason Topp]

Not recently, but a few years ago establishing where the pre-1930 mens tees were and playing from there with a handful of hickory clubs and an appropriate ball.
Lots to learn about why features were put where they were and when you consider the construction and maintenance methods/costs of the time why features were built the way they were. History can usually tell you quite a bit.
atb

I played Rustic Canyon recently and joined up with a former European Tour pro playing with hickories and a good amateur (maybe a 2 or 3 handicap) with 70's era equipment and me with modern equipment.  It was pretty interesting although my focus wound up being much less on course architecture and much more on how good the pro was despite the old equipment. 

[Kalen Braley]

I just got back from a few days at Ballyneal, and while all the holes are fantastic, the 8th stood out on this trip.  I think you can learn all needed about great strategic design by playing this hole a few times.

Brett - is that the short par 4 with a bit of a double fairway?

Jason,


Its the par 5 with the wicked cool green and options a-plenty!!

[JJShanley]

I think I understand fairway bunkering better, specifically how having a bunker near the preferred line of play from the tee shot encourages you to decide whether you want to take on the hazard to leave an easier approach shot.  Followed closely by the use of angled greens to encourage the player to think about which side of the fairway from which you'd want to approach the green.

JJ - you describe a fundamental tenant of strategic design.  One of my favorite courses has a bunch of fairway bunkers precisely where I would otherwise aim a tee ball.  One of the design challenges today is that a good drive can be 180 yards for my father and 280 for my son.  The standard response to such a conundrum are a bunch of tee boxes, but if I am playing with my father and my son I want to play from the same tee box so I can provide appropriate commentary for each of them.   

It gets even more fun when the architect suddenly places bunkers on the opposite side of where you would want to hit an approach.  We have that on at least two holes at my home course, one of which messes with even the varsity players who play the course regularly.  I realized the intended strategy by accident over time, hitting shots wide right and having an easier shot in. 


Small aspect of GCA in the grand scheme of things, but that helps orientate me as I play a hole for the first time.

[Jason Topp]

I just got back from a few days at Ballyneal, and while all the holes are fantastic, the 8th stood out on this trip.  I think you can learn all needed about great strategic design by playing this hole a few times.

Brett - is that the short par 4 with a bit of a double fairway?

Jason,


Its the par 5 with the wicked cool green and options a-plenty!!

Got it.  I almost killed someone on that hole with a shank.

[Don Mahaffey]

I've learned that the old saying, form follows function, is no longer the way it is. In modern golf design and const it is, only once the function is 100% guaranteed do we start to think about form.
We now have the most expensive and best functioning (draining) bunker liners of all time, yet we seem to go to greater lengths than ever to make sure not a drop of water ever drains into a bunker. Forget the appearance of the hole in the ground developed by animals getting out of the wind, those animals would never take shelter in the modern golf bunker in the sky.


Building a green, it's all about pinnable space so easy on anything over 2%.


Better make sure those irrigation heads only water that specific grass, so the front corners of the greens need three heads, one for the green, one for the approach, and one for the rough...but add some extra drainage in the approach anyhow in case we start using 3 as if they were one...


Luckily it is getting so out of hand that there are some who are pushing back...but the machine is hard to fight.

[Garland Bayley]

There has been a lot written on this website about what length of course the women should play. A common figure I have seen is that the women hit the ball about 2/3 as far as men. Therefore, one would think the standard women's tees should give a course 67% as long as the standard men's tees.

I looked at my club's scorecard. I find the standard women's tees are 92% as long as the standard men's tees. It's perhaps worth noting that I think the standard men's tees are too long, certainly longer than our competition.

I decided to look at all the area courses that have been produced in a more recent time frame than when I was middle aged and women's tees were like my club's, a token shortening. I found that these newer courses did not have that significant a reduction for the women's tees. They came in from 86% to 90% as long as the standard men's tees.

The courses that showed more difference were Gamble Sands, and the Bandon courses. They had two sets of tees shorter than what would be analogous to the standard men's tees. These shorter tees came in at 77% to 82% and 86% to 92%. Perhaps windy sites led to these. ?? ?? ??

No one in this area seems to be making courses 2/3 as long for the women as they are for the men. At least they are not advertising in with their scorecards found online.