[Kevin Robinson]

Just off the top of my head...Yeamans Hall, Carmargo, Delaware in Muncie, Indiana, Palmetto GC in Aiken, SC...
In fact, I believe that the golf shop at Yeamans Hall used to be in the building that is now occupied by the men's and ladies' locker rooms. There are also long-unused dorm rooms on the 2nd floor that are now used for storage...

[Tim Martin]

Just off the top of my head...Yeamans Hall, Carmargo, Delaware in Muncie, Indiana, Palmetto GC in Aiken, SC...
In fact, I believe that the golf shop at Yeamans Hall used to be in the building that is now occupied by the men's and ladies' locker rooms. There are also long-unused dorm rooms on the 2nd floor that are now used for storage...

Palmetto's is inside the clubhouse.

[Anthony Gholz]

In the Detroit area The CC of Detroit has one still from the 1926 era and at Detroit GC the pro shop of Alex Ross, Horton Smith, and Walter Burkemo is now the caddy shack, cart barn, bag drop/storage, etc.  The pro shop has been absorbed into their enlarged Albert Kahn clubhouse.  Black River and Port Huron GC in Port Huron, Michigan both started with stand alone pro shops that were absorbed into clubhouse additions.

[Matt Frey, PGA]

I have worked and visited facilities that have had their golf shops in their main clubhouse as well as a separate building. I have played 214 courses (all in the American Midwest, Northeast, Middle Atlantic and South), and only 36 of which have had separate buildings for their golf shops (see list of those examples below). Of those on my list, they are overwhelmingly in the Northeast and Middle Atlantic. I suspect that’s the case for one main reason: age of the facility.

As others have mentioned in this thread, many years ago, many golf professionals owned their own golf shops and paid their own employees, and were allocated space in a separate building to run their operation. There are exceptions to that rule, I’m sure, but if I were a betting man, I would say that is why so many more that I have experienced have been older clubs on the east coast. Furthermore, a quick analysis of my list below shows that while some have expansive main clubhouses, many are smaller and others have been added to over the years, leading me to believe that the golf shop was not a huge priority for member clubs years ago. Lastly, some who have separate shops have utilized existing buildings that are converted into clubhouses, such as old barns, and it may have been easier to build separate golf shops rather than adding on to and retrofitting an existing building.

In my personal opinion, there are probably more “cons" than there are “pros” to a separate golf shop, but others may disagree with me. A separate golf shop could mean the club staff and the golf staff operates more independently, rather than presenting a unified front, image and brand.

American Midwest and South
Arlington – Richmond, KY
Brown’s Run – Middletown, OH
Camargo – Cincinnati, OH
Hyde Park – Cincinnati, OH

American Northeast and Middle Atlantic
Bala – Philadelphia, PA
Bluestone – Blue Bell, PA
Buck Hill Falls (PA)
Center Square – Norristown, PA
Elkridge – Townson, MD
Glenhardie – Wayne, PA
Harker’s Hollow – Phillipsburg, NJ
Hayfields – Hunt Valley, MD
Hollywood – Deal, NJ
Huntingdon Valley (PA)
Jack Frost National – Blakeslee, PA
Lebanon (PA)
Llanerch – Havertown, PA
Lookaway – Buckingham, PA
Meadowbrook – Huntingdon Valley, PA
Mount Airy – Mount Pocono, PA
Oakmont (PA)
Old York Road – Spring House, PA
Paxon Hollow – Media, PA
Philadelphia Cricket – Flourtown, PA
Phoenixville (PA)
Pocono Manor (PA)
Rehoboth Beach (DE)
RiverCrest – Phoenixville, PA
Rolling Road – Catonsville, MD
Scranton – Clarks Summit, PA
Somerset Hills – Bernardsville, NJ
Spring Mill – Ivyland, PA
St. George’s – East Setauket, NY
Sunnehanna – Johnstown, PA
Timber Trails – Pocono Pines, PA
Youghiogheny – McKeesport, PA

[Steve Fekety]

Pumpkin Ridge - Witch Hollow.  As it is relatively new construction, I never asked anyone why it was built that way.  I can only assume it was due to the original ownership's love of the old school golf clubs back east.


I enjoyed working in this environment - mainly because we were separate from the locker room and food and beverage.  Our small shop had a couch, a fireplace, and a TV.  Occasionally we would get a member, John Kirk, plop down on the couch and fill us in on his latest ping pong conquests.  They had a great men's grill/locker room to hang out in.  The golf shop served one purpose, grab a hole location sheet and go.  I think it worked well for the members as well as the professional staff. 


If there was con to this set up, it would be the positioning of the golf shop.  It is right on your way to the first tee, thus it was the last place to stop before the 1st tee.  It wasn't the most efficient way to run a tee sheet. 


Conversely, I think the layout at LACC works much better.  You stop in the shop, check in before heading down to the range. And then back to the shop before heading to the first tee. 

[Niall C]

Archie

As Tom says its not uncommon in the UK to have the pro shop as a stand alone building although most will be owned by the club. Often the advantage/reason is that its closer to the 1st tee and the pro can then control tee times. Very few UK courses actually had starters so the pro doubled as the starter a lot of the time, and still does.

Niall

[John McCarthy]

Point O Woods has a proshop and bag room positioned between the first and tenth tee.  It is also the bag drop.  Very efficient. 

[John Kavanaugh]

I hope you all understand that not so long ago the pro and his staff were not welcome in the clubhouse.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

It's a throwback to the old days when the professional OWNED the pro shop, and had to be able to open and close it according to his own schedule.  It is very common in the UK to find the pro shop separate, and also for most old traditional private clubs:  witness Shinnecock, National, Cypress Point, L.A.C.C., etc.


It's become less common in the modern era because building a separate building is a bit more expensive [and less energy efficient] than incorporating it into a larger clubhouse structure.  But I think it's a shame to lose the old tradition.  I've tried to encourage some of my own clients to adopt the old way, with minimal success.  Old Macdonald and Rock Creek are the only ones I can think of right at the moment.  Oh, and Ballyneal.

I assumed it also had something to do with the "professional" having  a 2nd class status in the olden days, not being able to enter the clubhouse and such. I would say that here in St. Louis almost every club formed before 1940 has a separate pro shop. Is that not the case?

[John Kavanaugh]

Always hold your money and your wife close to the vest when doing business with a great golfer. Of course today most club pros can't play a lick.

[Ira Fishman]

The three private courses I have played most frequently--Bryn Mawr in Chicago, Kenwood in Bethesda, Md, and Hope Valley in Durham--all have free standing golf shops. All date back to pre-1930. I am not sure how they work for the Clubs' operations, but from my perspective, they are a plus because they encourage casual, non-transactional interaction with the golf staff. At Kenwood, I frequently go out to practice early morning and hang out in golf shop to shoot the breeze. Come to think of it, the golf staff and shop are the best parts of the club.

[archie_struthers]

 




Ira , love your reply . I was lucky enough to play Hope Valley with a friend of mine who had played in the PGA there . Remember the golf shop.


As you stated , the interaction in a small comfortable shop can be very different, and so much more personal !

[jeffwarne]

Just off the top of my head...Yeamans Hall, Carmargo, Delaware in Muncie, Indiana, Palmetto GC in Aiken, SC...
In fact, I believe that the golf shop at Yeamans Hall used to be in the building that is now occupied by the men's and ladies' locker rooms. There are also long-unused dorm rooms on the 2nd floor that are now used for storage...

Palmetto's is inside the clubhouse.

You're both right.
Palmetto's was originally stand alone, with a small locker room and cooler area around back.
Now they've expanded the locker room, office space, turned the back room into a mini museum and made the small locker room into a snack/dining area.


The main "clubhouse" the Stanford White building- remains stand alone

[Rob Marshall]

In Rochester NY
We have many:


Country Club of Rochester
Monroe Country Club
Brooklea Country Club
Penfield CC
Stafford CC

[BCowan]

Belvedere period

[Sean_A]

Ira , love your reply . I was lucky enough to play Hope Valley with a friend of mine who had played in the PGA there . Remember the golf shop.

As you stated , the interaction in a small comfortable shop can be very different, and so much more personal !

I buy this.  It is easy to see how proshop operations can be "treated" separate from the club if there is a separate building. 

I also like to think that clubhouses aren't big enough to incorporate shop space.  Swinley Forest and Blackwell strike me as examples of this.

Blackwell's shop.


The more I think about it, the more I realize how many shops are not part of the house or are connected, but a far off wing which may as well be stand alone.

Ciao

[Jeff Johnston]

Two off the top of my head in Ireland - Portmarnock and Royal Belfast.

Both adjacent to the first tee.

[Adrian_Stiff]

At the Players Club we have just abandoned our 'stand alone' pro shop and now moved everything into the clubhouse. Principally people hung around the pro shop and not in the bar.


At Greys Green we intend to not have a full clubhouse and operate the taking of the green fees, selling of balls, serving of a beer, serving of snacks up to burger and chips. Seats for about 16 -20 with plenty of patio space for the nice days. 2 simple toilets, people change in the car. No shower facility.


In the UK, its probably 50-50 separate pro shops from the clubhouse these days, rewind 20-25 years and the tilt was to separate pro shops.


The use of tee times has taken away the former pro shop duty so the need to be as adjacent the 1st tee has lessened.

[D_Malley]

i would have to ask a few questions before considering the location of the golf shop.


what is the proximity of the clubhouse to the first tee?
where is the cart barn located?
where is the practice range located?
where is the practice putting green located?
what amenities would the golf shop include?


we are considering building a stand alone golf shop at Paxon Hollow very close to the first tee.
i am curious as to why someone said that it works better at private clubs.

[Brett Wiesley]

Olympic Club
Ballyneal (mentioned by Tom)
Baltusrol
Waverley CC (OR)
Pebble/Spyglass
Winged Foot
Cal Club
SF Golf Club (probably the most meager shop in all of golf...but perfect)
Old Town


I agree with analysis that this is a concept frequent at older clubs.

[Thomas Dai]

Pro shops seem to be adding onsite indoor simulator rooms, even indoor putting areas, which need quite a bit of space.
As to separate or combined, there is an argument that if suitably combined then pro-shop and office can link-up easier and more efficienntly and the staff can even cover certain parts of each others prime role on occasions, even just casual enquires and answering phones.
Atb

[Adrian_Stiff]

Pro shops seem to be adding onsite indoor simulator rooms, even indoor putting areas, which need quite a bit of space.
As to separate or combined, there is an argument that if suitably combined then pro-shop and office can link-up easier and more efficienntly and the staff can even cover certain parts of each others prime role on occasions, even just casual enquires and answering phones.
Atb

Those things make a lot of sense. The key over-rider for today and beyond is to design the golf club such that it can be operated with as few staff as possible. Put the money in the golf course not the clubhouse. People go to a golf club to play golf not look at the pretty car park. A limited clubhouse can knock 40% off a golf subscription in the UK, that's a big deal for a lot of golfers although there will always be a market for posher.

[DFarron]

Olympic Club
Ballyneal (mentioned by Tom)
Baltusrol
Waverley CC (OR)
Pebble/Spyglass
Winged Foot
Cal Club
SF Golf Club (probably the most meager shop in all of golf...but perfect)
Old Town


I agree with analysis that this is a concept frequent at older clubs.

SF building a new "luxurious" golf shop lol!

[DFarron]

It would depend on the club and the climate, when I was at club's in the mid-west I liked my shop connected so when members visited the club weather was never a reason for them to not come in the shop. It also saved me from having to go outside to go to the grille, accounting department, etc.


And it allowed for economies of scale heating and cooling the building and deliveries from UPS, fed Ex, etc.

[Mark Chaplin]

At my clubs the ones that are separate from the clubhouse, Deal and Flossmoor work well, mainly because they are correctly located.


At Worplesdon the pro shop is part of the clubhouse and close to the first tee but not part of either. In 5 years I doubt I've been in there 10 times.


The worst located proshop is Rye, it's 50+ yards from the clubhouse, over a busy road and not even on the route from the car park to the clubhouse. In 20-30 visits I think I've been in there once.


Location, location, location.

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