[Wade Whitehead]

Yesterday, at the NCAA Women's Championship at Rich Harvest Farms, an artificial turf mat was used as a teeing ground on the par four fourth hole.

The hole wasn't playable using any of the existing tee boxes.

http://golfweek.com/2017/05/19/ncaa-golf-women-rich-harvest-farms-artificial-turf-tee/

It's not that grass was in poor condition on an existing tee box; it was that none of the actual tee locations could be used because the hole would have been too difficult.

What does this say about the hole's design?

What does it say about venue selection?

Architects, what would you say if this was done on a hole on one of YOUR courses?

WW

[Tyler Kearns]

Wade,


Rich Harvest Farms uses an artificial turf tee for one of their back tees due to poor growing conditions in that specific spot (not enough sunlight, air circulation etc.), but I believe it has always been part of the original design.


In regards to the case in point, why revert to an artificial mat tee?  You need to find a level spot to locate the tee for the women's competition, just mow down the area and play from grass. 


TK

[Anthony_Nysse]

I think that the tee you're referring to was grassed this spring.

[Wade Whitehead]

Wade,


Rich Harvest Farms uses an artificial turf tee for one of their back tees due to poor growing conditions in that specific spot (not enough sunlight, air circulation etc.), but I believe it has always been part of the original design.


In regards to the case in point, why revert to an artificial mat tee?  You need to find a level spot to locate the tee for the women's competition, just mow down the area and play from grass. 


TK

Interesting.  I don't understand this at all.

What's the difference in doing that and in building an artificial green?

WW

[Matthew Essig]

The hole was into a strong wind. The official doing set-up didn't think short hitters could clear the hazard or reach the corner of the dogleg. So, this tee was the only option.


What does it say about design? Nothing. If there is a strong wind the opposite of the prevailing, the hole will not play as intended. The tee is there for worst case scenario, and unfortunately, it was worst case scenario.


As the article said, the tee won't be used again if it doesn't have to be.


Something the article didn't say, the weather has been absolute shit, and one round has already been cancelled. It is now only 54 holes of stroke play for the women's individual.

[Matt Bielawa]

Here's what it looked like two years ago.  Assuming this is where they played from?

[Terry Lavin]

I've played the course. It needs attention from a consulting architect who could get rid of 1000 or so trees and take care of some other issues. The owner won't allow this because he has the course just the way he wants it. The consulting architect has the talent to do a good job. The owner is one of the most generous and gracious men I've ever met. Regrettably there will never be a meeting of their minds on the renovation work that needs to be done. It is what it is and it will never be what it could be.

[JJShanley]

Can someone clarify: did the NCAA install this turf-tee? or was it installed previously?

[Joel Pear]

It has always been there.

[jeffwarne]

If a regular wood tee is useable in the fake turf, why is this such a big deal?


Solves a problem.
It's not like other major sports events aren't played on fake turf...(though I'm not a fan of fake turf in any sport)

[Andrew Buck]

I've played the course. It needs attention from a consulting architect who could get rid of 1000 or so trees and take care of some other issues. The owner won't allow this because he has the course just the way he wants it. The consulting architect has the talent to do a good job. The owner is one of the most generous and gracious men I've ever met. Regrettably there will never be a meeting of their minds on the renovation work that needs to be done. It is what it is and it will never be what it could be.

Terry,

He is so generous and gracious, even with his private oasis for juniors and charity, that I hate when I'm asked to share my opinion of the golf course.

[Ronald Montesano]

The photos above are not that tee. The 2017 iteration is located up and to the left, along the creek.


To me, it says that the hole lacks a proper tee for all occasions. When you bring marshes and such into play, you need to find a proper teeing ground.


How is it different from an artificial green? I think that difference should be obvious. If you need an artificial green, you need to fire your staff and planning committee immediately.

[Terry Lavin]

If a regular wood tee is useable in the fake turf, why is this such a big deal?


Solves a problem.
It's not like other major sports events aren't played on fake turf...(though I'm not a fan of fake turf in any sport)

Good point but there's something inherently wrong about walking back to a tree-surrounded nook to play a tee shot only because there's a tree in the normal hitting zone that they wont cut down and they won't cut the trees around the teeing area so they put in what we call AstroTurf.  A bit of an artificial, architectural anomaly.

[jeffwarne]

If a regular wood tee is useable in the fake turf, why is this such a big deal?


Solves a problem.
It's not like other major sports events aren't played on fake turf...(though I'm not a fan of fake turf in any sport)

Good point but there's something inherently wrong about walking back to a tree-surrounded nook to play a tee shot only because there's a tree in the normal hitting zone that they wont cut down and they won't cut the trees around the teeing area so they put in what we call AstroTurf.  A bit of an artificial, architectural anomaly.

Agreed Terry,
I have zero desire to play there-with or without the tee.


I was refering to The NCAA's decision to use the tee when there wasn't any other reasonable solution for the day.

[Ronald Montesano]

If you read the golf week article, there was much difficulty in planting a tee. so much so, in fact, that golfers began to abandon driver and simply hit hybrid off the turf. So many good turf pads out there that allow you to plant a tee, that this faux pas is unforgivable and avoidable.

[Buck Wolter]

If you read the golf week article, there was much difficulty in planting a tee. so much so, in fact, that golfers began to abandon driver and simply hit hybrid off the turf. So many good turf pads out there that allow you to plant a tee, that this faux pas is unforgivable and avoidable.

http://golfweek.com/2017/05/19/ncaa-golf-women-rich-harvest-farms-artificial-turf-tee/

Hard to believe they couldn't have seen this coming -- coming on the heels of not seeding the #1 ranked softball team in the country in the Top 16 you have to wonder how seriously they take women's athletics.

[SL_Solow]

Buck;  With all due respect, the NCAA is holding the Men's on the same course the following week.  Rich harvest has hosted the Solheim Cup and numerous other tourney's.  Mr. Rich likes to host big events and has the ability to offer attractive terms.  This has nothing to do with the NCAA's attitude toward Women's or even non-revenue sports.  I'll withhold comment on the architecture.

[Matt_Cohn]

More generally, can someone post the routing of this golf course? I cannot figure it out to save my life (or find it online).

[Buck Wolter]

Buck;  With all due respect, the NCAA is holding the Men's on the same course the following week.  Rich harvest has hosted the Solheim Cup and numerous other tourney's.  Mr. Rich likes to host big events and has the ability to offer attractive terms.  This has nothing to do with the NCAA's attitude toward Women's or even non-revenue sports.  I'll withhold comment on the architecture.

No one could foresee a strong wind forcing them to play up on that hole and putting a real tee in to accommodate a National Championship? I know the men are playing there -- that's my point that the women's event was an afterthought.

[BCowan]

So a club gives up its course for 2 weeks and members play the artifical tee, but it's not good enough for kids.  Sounds like typical Child Worship sold as sexism.

[jeffwarne]

If you read the golf week article, there was much difficulty in planting a tee. so much so, in fact, that golfers began to abandon driver and simply hit hybrid off the turf. So many good turf pads out there that allow you to plant a tee, that this faux pas is unforgivable and avoidable.

http://golfweek.com/2017/05/19/ncaa-golf-women-rich-harvest-farms-artificial-turf-tee/

Hard to believe they couldn't have seen this coming -- coming on the heels of not seeding the #1 ranked softball team in the country in the Top 16 you have to wonder how seriously they take women's athletics.

That's a joke right?
Nearly every college in the country has more women's sports teams than men's.
Some sports have more intercollegiate participants than there are in high school.


They hit off a mat off one hole to squeeze an event in under trying circumstances.
love the quote "some of the participants had never hit off a mat in their life"  Really?
NO CHANCE that's true with indoor studios, etc. or God forbid-a driving range mat-oooooh
ZERO

[SL_Solow]

The real problem is that the tee box is surrounded by trees and grass won't grow.  Mr. Rich loves the way the hole looks and feels and won't open it up for  light and air.  For tournaments they sod the tee but it doesn't survive .  Conditions were extreme and thus there wasn't enough grass put in (my assumption).  It is a very difficult hole; we have had threads about it, very few on this site like it.  I agree that the tee is the least of the problems with this hole but it puts an exclamation point on some of the criticism.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Wow, what a bad hole.  The girls should all just skip the fake tee and the entire hole, automatic halve.  And hey, it will help with pace of play right?

[Howard Riefs]

More generally, can someone post the routing of this golf course? I cannot figure it out to save my life (or find it online).

https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/richharvestlinks/aerial.htm

[Matt Bielawa]

For what it's worth, relative to the linked routing, the nines are flipped for the tournament.

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