Mark Twain GC - Ross - Why didn't he mail this one in?

[MCirba]

Rob Marshall,


Yes, the house Sindelar grew up in is behind one of the greens on the front nine...thought maybe #1 or #2?   

[Richard Hetzel]

Mike, Thanks, I'll play Soaring Eagles instead, it's super close to Mark Twain.

[MCirba]

Mike, Thanks, I'll play Soaring Eagles instead, it's super close to Mark Twain.

Richard,


I think you'll enjoy it.  Let me know, thanks.

[John Foley]

Mike, Thanks, I'll play Soaring Eagles instead, it's super close to Mark Twain.

Hiawatha Landing is very good. Most of the front 9 is flat near the river but you get some good movement on the back.  A few very good holes out there (I really like 12-16).


Never played Soaring Eagles need to get there.

[John Blain]

Rob Marshall,


Yes, the house Sindelar grew up in is behind one of the greens on the front nine...thought maybe #1 or #2?

I believe Mike Hulbert grew up playing Soaring Eagles as well. Mike is the same age as Joey and they grew up playing with and against each other. Mike won 3X on the PGA Tour.
Elmira has produced some very successful players over the years. In addition to Joey and Mike, Bill Tryon and Mary Anne Levins are both members of the NYSGA Hall of Fame based upon their playing resume. They both played out of Elmira CC. Another Elmira CC member Mike Valicenti won 2 State Ams a Mid Am in the late 90's.
Pretty amazing for a small and sleepy city in the Southern Tier of upstate NY.

[John Blain]

Mike, Thanks, I'll play Soaring Eagles instead, it's super close to Mark Twain.

Hiawatha Landing is very good. Most of the front 9 is flat near the river but you get some good movement on the back.  A few very good holes out there (I really like 12-16).


Never played Soaring Eagles need to get there.

I agree, John. In fact I would rate Hiawatha over Soaring Eagles and Mark Twain. I believe Hiawatha is a Mark Mungeam design. It sits hard on the Susquehanna River. Lots of good holes and easy to walk.

[Philip Caccamise]

New York State High School Golf Championships have been moved there from Cornell recently. Great venue for that event.


https://www.stargazette.com/picture-gallery/sports/high-school/2022/06/06/photo-gallery-mark-twain-golf-course-hosts-nysphsaa-boys-golf-tournament/7535568001/


Hiawatha is pretty good but I remember it having more bugs than any other golf course I've ever been on. I'd try and secure an invite at Binghamton CC if you can, they're pretty friendly there so you might have a good chance.


Also, En-Joie is one of my least favorite golf courses ever. Don't go there.

[Richard Hetzel]

You guys are killing me.


Leatherstocking and Mark Twain are for sure. Hopefully Binghampton will accommodate me on a late afternoon or a Monday. Won't have time for both Soaring Eagles and Links of Hiawatha unless BCC falls through...

[Chris_Blakely]

I played Soaring Eagles based on everything Mike Cirba had posted about it over the years . . .  and it exceeded expectations.  Course has some amazing greens, buckle up for some wild undulations if you play.   The course is quite hilly and I was questioning my choice to walk by the end of a very hot day.


I have sought out several additional courses by Pete Craig based on this course.


Chris

[MCirba]

Thanks, Chris.


It's a sweet little hidden gem and I'm gratified that you enjoyed it

[Chris_Blakely]

Thanks, Chris.


It's a sweet little hidden gem and I'm gratified that you enjoyed it

Mike,


You are welcome.


Have you played any other courses by Pete Craig?


Thanks
Chris

[Richard Hetzel]

Thanks, Chris.


It's a sweet little hidden gem and I'm gratified that you enjoyed it

I did take your advice on Copake CC in NY back in June, so there is that. Soaring Eagles it is. If I have the time, I'll play at least 9 at Links of Hiawatha...

[MCirba]

Chris,


Yes, I also played Victor Hills outside Rochester by Pete Craig.   Some good terrain as befits that area with some gems of holes here and there but not as consistent overall.   Would def enjoy seeing more of his work.


Rich,


Really interested to hear your feedback on your trip, thanks!

[Richard Hetzel]

Chris,


Yes, I also played Victor Hills outside Rochester by Pete Craig.   Some good terrain as befits that area with some gems of holes here and there but not as consistent overall.   Would def enjoy seeing more of his work.


Rich,


Really interested to hear your feedback on your trip, thanks!

Looks like Victor Hills has three 18 hole courses. Looking at the pics of the course online it looks like the North Course is the most interesting.

[MCirba]

Looks like Victor Hills has three 18 hole courses. Looking at the pics of the course online it looks like the North Course is the most interesting.

Richard,


Yes, only played the North.  Don't recall specifics but my architectural notes for that one shows Craig design from 1963 with changes by Jack Dianetti (owner?) in 1975 and 1990.

[John Foley]

Pete Craig & Victor Hills - talk about my backyard!!


Victor Hills is a solid family run place w/ 3 18 + a 9 hole exec course. They do a ton of biz always busy. They started w 18 and then expanded to 27 then 36 added the exec ten the last 18 (East). Not sure who did the East as I don't think Pete Craig was still practicing at that time.


Architecturally there are some very good land out there but the quality of the courses suffer a bit from the fact that there are 63 holes out there. There are a bunch of very good holes out there. North has a bunch. #7 which used to be one of the best holes in the area but was cut down to a tough par 4 to fit in all the holes, #18 a cool par 5 w/ a great natural punchbowl green. The East is relatively new and has some interesting land. I am sure if this was virgin land you could build an awesome course on it but that's just fantasy.


 

[John Blain]

Pete Craig & Victor Hills - talk about my backyard!!


Victor Hills is a solid family run place w/ 3 18 + a 9 hole exec course. They do a ton of biz always busy. They started w 18 and then expanded to 27 then 36 added the exec ten the last 18 (East). Not sure who did the East as I don't think Pete Craig was still practicing at that time.


Architecturally there are some very good land out there but the quality of the courses suffer a bit from the fact that there are 63 holes out there. There are a bunch of very good holes out there. North has a bunch. #7 which used to be one of the best holes in the area but was cut down to a tough par 4 to fit in all the holes, #18 a cool par 5 w/ a great natural punchbowl green. The East is relatively new and has some interesting land. I am sure if this was virgin land you could build an awesome course on it but that's just fantasy.

I want to say Pete Craig designed or had a hand in Deerfield CC and Penfield CC. Two solid courses in the Rochester area but are overshadowed by their better-known neighbors in Pittsford.

[Rob Marshall]

Pete Craig & Victor Hills - talk about my backyard!!


Victor Hills is a solid family run place w/ 3 18 + a 9 hole exec course. They do a ton of biz always busy. They started w 18 and then expanded to 27 then 36 added the exec ten the last 18 (East). Not sure who did the East as I don't think Pete Craig was still practicing at that time.


Architecturally there are some very good land out there but the quality of the courses suffer a bit from the fact that there are 63 holes out there. There are a bunch of very good holes out there. North has a bunch. #7 which used to be one of the best holes in the area but was cut down to a tough par 4 to fit in all the holes, #18 a cool par 5 w/ a great natural punchbowl green. The East is relatively new and has some interesting land. I am sure if this was virgin land you could build an awesome course on it but that's just fantasy.

I want to say Pete Craig designed or had a hand in Deerfield CC and Penfield CC. Two solid courses in the Rochester area but are overshadowed by their better-known neighbors in Pittsford.

Pete designed Penfield CC and two years ago Ian Andrew did a great bunker renovation and tweaked a few holes with some great tree removal which is still in progress.

[Chris_Blakely]

Thanks, Chris.


It's a sweet little hidden gem and I'm gratified that you enjoyed it

I did take your advice on Copake CC in NY back in June, so there is that. Soaring Eagles it is. If I have the time, I'll play at least 9 at Links of Hiawatha...

As someone who has played most Emmet courses, I believe I was someone
Who started pushing Copake many many years ago.


Chris

[MCirba]

I've never played Copake but hope to before long

[Richard Hetzel]

Looks like Binghampton CC, not accepting of outside play. No worries. Lots of courses on my list to play.


Leatherstocking
Mark Twain
Soaring Eagles
Links Hiawatha


Ravenwood and/or Victor Hills North.


I'll post pics of Mark Twain GC for sure.

[John Blain]

Looks like Binghampton CC, not accepting of outside play. No worries. Lots of courses on my list to play.


Leatherstocking
Mark Twain
Soaring Eagles
Links Hiawatha


Ravenwood and/or Victor Hills North.


I'll post pics of Mark Twain GC for sure.

I would play Ravenwood over Victor Hills. That's a no-brainer. Also, it's Binghamton (no "p")

[MCirba]

I would play Ravenwood over Victor Hills. That's a no-brainer. Also, it's Binghamton (no "p")

If you grew up in the Scranton area like I did it's pronounced "Bimington".

[Stewart Abramson]

I would play Ravenwood over Victor Hills.

They are two very different courses. I played Victor Hills North for the first time a couple days ago. Ravenwood is a big, wide open, modern CCFAD type of course that's 7,100 yards from the back tees ($57 to walk, $67 to ride),  while VHN is is a tree lined, old school, mom & mom parkland course, 6500 from the back tees with a few quirky holes (quirky in a good way). You can spray your drives at Ravenwood without losing a ball and each hole is "right in front of you". At VHN you'll want to walk ahead on a few holes to scope out what is being asked of your next shot.


VHN has a lot of elevation change, some subtle, some steep, and has five or six holes that require straight tee shots through chutes.  Besides those few tight tee shots, the main weakness of VHN is that the greens are mostly pretty plain, although in good condition. I'd probably suggest Ravenwood to most people as well, but Victor Hills is a fun round and a great value at $29 to walk and $41 to ride ($23 /$33 for seniors).


Here are links to photos of the two courses.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72177720301569490  Victor Hills Pix


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157655118456464 Ravenwood Pix

[David Bowen]

Apples and Oranges between Ravenwood and any of the Victor Hills courses.


Ravenwood is a higher end public track that allows plenty of room off the tee, open entries to the greens, well placed fairway bunkers and some good greenish bunkering.  One of the better public fee courses in the Rochester area.  There is some internal subtitles to the greens which tend to be on the large size.  #2 is the most interesting hole with a mostly blind approach to the most aggressive green.[size=78%] [/size]


Victor Hills is an over-treed public facility that is fun, but architecturally is not worth traveling out of the area to play. Around the corner is Parkview Fairways which is of similar stock but has a few very good holes.  There is a par 3 that handsomely mimics #4 at Augusta.  Unfortunately, it was overplanted with evergreens which have now come into fruition and impact play negatively.  Something Victor has in Spades.  Both began as nice linksy style courses, but now are Christmas courses.  Not knocking either one as they serve the area very well and provide fun places for the game.