Place one bunker on the 18th at The Old Course @ St. Andrews

[Ronald Montesano]

The "Perfect Hole" thread, and the nomination of the 18th at TOC aroused this in me. The Old Course has evolved over time. Bunkers were added in certain spaces. Here's my exercise for this Masters weekend.


Place one bunker on the 18th at The Old Course and explain your decision. I anticipate the following responses:
     "It doesn't need one, it's hallowed ground, away with you, you git."
     "It has one already. It's the beach 150 metres to the left."
     "F&*king Colonials, always adding bunkers."


They won't help the cause, but contribute them if you must. The 18th is bunkerless, but what would it look like with that one spot of sand?

[Don Hyslop]

Why would you want to disturb the genius of this hole. The beauty of the wrinkled fairway is all that is needed.


http://www.golfdigest.com/story/st-andrews-john-barton

[Nigel Islam]

If you were really wanting to then I guess a carry fairway pot  bunker some 30-40 yards short of the green, right of the Valley of the Sin would be the place where it would most alter play.

[Carl Rogers]

Would not that be more controversial than re-sloping the green at no. 11?

[BCrosby]

The 18th at TOC had a bunker. It was called Halket's Bunker (sp?) and you can still see its outline at about the 250 yard mark from the regular tee. It was filled-in sometime in the middle of the 19th century. There is speculation that it once guarded what was once the green of the 21st hole.


If I recall correctly, you will find on the Mack timeline a letter he wrote in 1926 (on the boat on the way to Australia) suggesting a fw bunker on the 18th. It was a hypothetical exercise for MacK, made in the context of a debate with Joshua Crane about TOC, much of which took place in the pages of The Field magazine at the time.


Bob   

[BCrosby]

To be clear, adding a bunker to the 18th at TOC is a terrible idea.


Bob

[Ally Mcintosh]

Good thread Ron. Only one person has answered so far. I'd put mine a bit further left than Nigel and about 80 to 100 yards short of the green. A small pot would be lost though so I'll make mine larger, elongated on the diagonal.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Think I would put save bunkers along the right of the fw, and behind the green to protect golfers from going OB......


Actually, based on playing the hole with fellow architect Rick Jacobsen, I might add a save bunker on the right of no. 1......to avoid slicing out of bounds in front of everyone, he aimed way left and then double crossed it, putting it on the putting green.  The old caddy said "I've never seen that before, but I've only been here 42 years!"


Seriously, I don't see the need for a bunker.

[Jon Wiggett]

Think I would put save bunkers along the right of the fw, and behind the green to protect golfers from going OB......

Jeff,


you forgot about a cross bunker in front of the burn to stop the top shot going in. Maybe a tasteful plantation of conifers to break up the first and last fairways.


To answer the question though. It would be possible to add a bunker or bunkers in several locations which might add to the strategy of the hole but I very much doubt it would improve the hole so would not see the point of doing so.


Jon

[Matthew Essig]

I guess if you HAD to put one in, put it in the flat off to left in the fairway near the first tee.

[Sean_A]

If I had to place a bunker on the 18th I would look for a low spot on the tee side and adjacent to Granny Clarks Wynd.


Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

Why? Have you the time to elaborate?

To be clear, adding a bunker to the 18th at TOC is a terrible idea.


Bob

[Ronald Montesano]

Why? Care to elaborate? Not being prickly, just curious.

Why would you want to disturb the genius of this hole. The beauty of the wrinkled fairway is all that is needed.


http://www.golfdigest.com/story/st-andrews-john-barton

[mike_malone]

I'm tempted to put it in the middle of the green. I can't recall exactly if the contours allow it.


My thinking is that no bunker should be on the fairway but if one must be on the hole the challenge should be in the green.

[Nigel Islam]

Why? Have you the time to elaborate?

To be clear, adding a bunker to the 18th at TOC is a terrible idea.


Bob

I answered, but I agree that's it's a terrible idea. If you place a bunker on 18 it has to be large to have an impact on play. Ally alluded to this earlier. I just don't think a large bunker would fit visually in what to me is an iconic view of golf. Regardless, I think it's a cool exercise, and I appreciate Ron coming up with the idea.

[mike_beene]

I would put it 20 yards in front of the first tee but left of the line you take walking from the first tee directly toward the first green.

[Ronald Montesano]

Why large? Why not a Devil's Asshole-style pit, that you know is there, that you cannot possibly hit with all that room, but it gnaws at the conscience of your mind.


Nigel, thanks for recognizing the purpose of the exercise. It's along the line of "How would you alter the Mona Lisa?" It doesn't mean that we should, but thinking about how we might often leads us toward epiphany and enlightenment


xoxo...Budda

Why? Have you the time to elaborate?

To be clear, adding a bunker to the 18th at TOC is a terrible idea.


Bob

I answered, but I agree that's it's a terrible idea. If you place a bunker on 18 it has to be large to have an impact on play. Ally alluded to this earlier. I just don't think a large bunker would fit visually in what to me is an iconic view of golf. Regardless, I think it's a cool exercise, and I appreciate Ron coming up with the idea.

[BCrosby]

Why would adding a new bunker to the 18th at TOC be a terrible idea?

1. It is very good hole as it is.

2. The idea of adding a bunker reflects the modern assumption that adding features to a hole will automatically make it better. There is no reason to think that is true. Sometimes adding features will make a hole better. Sometimes they won't. Sometimes they will make it worse. When you are starting with a good hole, you have a high hurdle to clear to make the case for new bunkers or any other new feature. I see no reason to think that hurdle has been cleared re: the 18th at TOC.

3. We have been down this road before about changing TOC and our betters said "no". In 1926, as part of the Crane brouhaha (Crane did not like TOC), the major Golden Age British architects were surveyed as to whether TOC should be changed/updated. To a man, they said TOC should not be changed in any way. We are talking Colt, Fowler, Simpson, Alison, Abercrombie, Croome, MacKenzie. (See The Field magazine, 1926.) Me, I am happy to defer to the architectural opinions of that group. Peter Dawson thinks otherwise. I believe Dawson is badly misguided. (A modern day example of hubris comes to mind.)

4. TOC holds a unique place in the history of the game in general and in the history of golf architecture in particular. We had lots of talk about this back a couple of years ago when Dawson made his changes. All the arguments then about the special status of TOC apply with equal force to its last hole. I don't have the time to rehash those arguments here, but since about 1905 (until Dawson weighed in, that is) TOC was not been changed in any material way. The course functions something like a founding document for the game. It is the measure against which the practise of golf architecture is still measured. You should not - just because you think you have a really cool new idea - mess with that measure.

I could go on, but need to go play a bit of golf with my wife on this beautiful spring day.

Bob

[BHoover]

Personally, if I had to choose just one bunker, then I would place one in the Valley of Sin.

[Ronald Montesano]

Bob,
Enjoy your golf with your wife. Thank you for your words.


Brian,
Funny, but the VOS is the one feature I would not alter. My strategy would be this: hang out at TOC for two weeks and chart driving patterns on the hole. I would want to see where the majority of golfers finish, and then I would have a bit more information before making a decision. I would then situate the bunker where they ain't. It would be in the drive zone, but not in the spot where many finish.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Bob,
Enjoy your golf with your wife. Thank you for your words.


Brian,
Funny, but the VOS is the one feature I would not alter. My strategy would be this: hang out at TOC for two weeks and chart driving patterns on the hole. I would want to see where the majority of golfers finish, and then I would have a bit more information before making a decision. I would then situate the bunker where they ain't. It would be in the drive zone, but not in the spot where many finish.

This is an interesting take, Ron.


Given that the fairway is over 100 yards wide and you are putting in only one bunker, I'd be putting the bunker 20 yards short of where all the divots are (allowing for 30 yards of run)

[Ronald Montesano]

An interesting take is what I'm after! My thinking is, I'd rather have balls trickle into a bunker than fly in. More chance of burying with the later.

[John Cowden]

Isn't the question presented best interpreted as, "How would you screw up 18 on TOC with a bunker?"  Lots of good ideas so far.

[David Lott]

I would put the bunker behind the green and also left parallel to the green. That would entail moving the green about 20 yards closer to the tee. Then redesignate it as a par three for the pros and let them wale away without fear of hitting OB. Poof! World's most distinctive par  3 right in the middle of St. Andrews.


Hey, this is a course where you hit over a hotel, fairways intersect and you play at least one hole backwards from its original design. Never fear the unusual.

[Niall C]

If you are going to do it then I'd have it just short of being pin high to the Valley of Sin and on the left. It would probably be mid way between the green and the starters hut. It would be reasonably small and pot bunkerish but with a bit of gathering ground round about it, not too abrupt mind since it's fairly flat round about and you'd want it to fit in.


In terms of the ordinary punter it would likely have no bearing on how they play the hole as they would reach it and it would need a pretty poor second shot to go in. For the pro's however it would be slap bang where a great many of them now look to go in order to flank around the Valley of Sin.


Not only would this accord with the maxim of placing the bunkers where the player wants to be (was that Low or Simpson or someone else ? - can't recall) but would also chime with the last great tranche of bunkering in the early 1900's which sought to protect the ideal line of approach from down the right.


Disclaimer: I am not a member of the R&A; I've never met Peter Dawson; and completely sober as I write this.


Niall