For those who've played the Cliff Hole at Dornick Hills

[Tony Ristola]

The NCAA has The Maxwell Intercollegiate there in April... but... I'm wondering... for those who know the course a bit...

How do ladies and seniors manage/enjoy the hole?

[Ben Stephens]

The NCAA has The Maxwell Intercollegiate there in April... but... I'm wondering... for those who know the course a bit...

How do ladies and seniors manage/enjoy the hole?

Tony


The nearest equivalent I have played in the UK is the 5th hole at Sutton Bridge which is the old dock wall


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTkCFsU_PU4&feature=youtu.be


It is challenging to reach the green in 2 though yet being really close to it is not really a option to play directly to the hole.


Cheers
Ben

[David Davis]

Putt it up the car path?

[Matt_Cohn]

I would imagine they don't enjoy it that much. And one of the hardest things about the hole is that, like 12 at Augusta, the normal right-hand misses (short-right and long-left) are both bad. And if you hit the wall it bounces to the right, into the trees, and you usually can't get your next one up either. When I played it a lot the fairway conditions were typically slightly rough, which made the shot tremendously harder. If it were nice cushiony grass, hitting a solid wedge would be no big deal.

[Tom_Doak]

The hole is certainly not beyond the abilities of most senior golfers.  It's not easy, but it's not like they can't hit a short iron up on there.


It might be beyond the ability of some ladies and beginners.  [My definition for that would be, they have to pick up more often than they finish the hole.]  But I'd guess that often, those players are playing with each other, so it's not a big deal to them.


I think it would be highly instructive to ask the members of Dornick Hills how much they mind that, as a trade-off for having such a unique golf hole.  My guess would be most of them don't mind, and that many take a great deal of pride in the hole and in getting proficient enough to play it well.  Note that they have changed some other things about the course, sadly, but they haven't changed the 16th.

[Peter Pallotta]

I've play a hole not disimilar to this on a Herbert Strong course. What struck me when I thought of how it must've played originally wasn't the challenge of getting the ball up and onto the green - it would've been a short shot even then with a mashie niblick; instead, the real challenge must've been distance control, especially in the days long before yardage markers, let alone hand held measuring devices. I never thought of the old architects testing distance control in that way.

[Jeff_Brauer]

You wouldn't remodel a hole like that out of existence on account of some players not being able to clear the top of the hill. Similar to placing a drop zone over the pond (using a slight twist to the relaxed rules of golf) they could simply put a drop zone for those who failed up top of the hill and keep the hole as is.


BTW, the worst shot I ever saw from a good player happened on that hole. After reaching the fringe in two shots, he managed to shank a chip back down to the lower level, climbed down, and played back up.......

[Ronald Montesano]

American obsession with score, please come to the service desk. Thank you.
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You give it a go, you don't make it, you pick up and play from the top. GHIN allows for that, an informal match allows for that. If you're in an actual scratch, medal event and cannot hit up there, your qualifications for entry should be revisited.

[mike_beene]

I confess to one time blading a wedge into the cliff. The rebound proved that indeed golf does require quick reflexes.

[Frank M]

It's not too dissimilar to the 16th at a Stanley Thompson golf course near me in Toronto called Islington. It doesn't have a rock wall, but the hole plays 350 yards from the back tees downhill to the fairway and then back uphill from there. Pretty much everyone should have a short iron or wedge into the elevated green if playing from the appropriate tees. It's one of my favourite holes on the course, and from those I know, member or otherwise, nobody has any qualms.

From The Tee


From The Fairway


From Behind The Green (there's a smart ridge through the middle of the green you can use as a backstop can't really see in the photo)

[Tony Ristola]

Thanks for your comments guys.


For the average lady (75%-plus have a 20 hcp or higher), I'd expect it to be a picker-upper. Their flat ball flight means they'd have to lay it up in the right spot.


As Tom noted, most seniors would be able to hit the required shot.


The average 21-year-old female has the physical strength of a 65-year-old male. Most females playing the game aren't 21.


Frank M.
That doesn't look like a 50ft elevation change, but then again, the photos of Dornick's 15th don't either.


The saving grace for building a hole like that in continental Europe is they play Stableford. A bad hole won't kill your day.

[Frank M]

Frank M.
That doesn't look like a 50ft elevation change, but then again, the photos of Dornick's 15th don't either.

I find them pretty similar from the photo you posted. I'm not sure it's 50 feet up or that they are the exact same elevation, and obviously it's not a rock wall, but judging from the photo of Dornick, and comparing to the visible portion of the pin, to me it looks like Islington might be a bit higher even, but they look pretty close..

[Tony Ristola]

Frank M.
That doesn't look like a 50ft elevation change, but then again, the photos of Dornick's 15th don't either.

I find them pretty similar from the photo you posted. I'm not sure it's 50 feet up or that they are the exact same elevation, and obviously it's not a rock wall, but judging from the photo of Dornick, and comparing to the visible portion of the pin, to me it looks like Islington might be a bit higher even, but they look pretty close.

Again, that said, speaking to the pro, super and some members, not one has said anything about it being too much or that it should be changed and they did a lot of work to the course recently including building an entire new hole the hole before the one pictured. That doesn't mean some don't find it difficult, but if they do it hasn't been much of a problem.

Thanks and cheers.