[Jason Topp]

Interesting perspective:

"As Lance mentioned in the video, 70% of golfers are playing in pain or have played in pain.  Adding medical and   fitness services can help a membership become healthier and more active, translating into more revenue for a club.

It's not just fitness professionals who are touting the growth opportunity, either.  Golf industry analysts point to fitness and wellness as the future for golf clubs."

 http://www.mytpi.com/articles/fitness/how_golf_clubs_are_using_fitness_to_engage_attract_and_retain_members

My initial reaction is that this is like the big clubhouses that so many clubs think will generate a bunch of banquet profit.  I go to a health club regularly but it draws from the entire population in the area.  A golf club would be limited to its members.  Even with the best facilities and trainers in the area I would guess that 10% at most would use it multiple times per week.  At a 300 member club that is 30 people.         

[Jeff Shelman]

Jason,


I would welcome the ability to have fitness offerings at a club, assuming they were decent.


There are many people out there who are paying golf club dues and then additional dues to a health club. The ability to cut a health club out of the budget would be welcomed by many.


Plus if the wife/kids don't golf, but do use the fitness facilities, it could be an easier sell at home.


I actually recently cancelled my health club membership and my yoga studio membership. Instead, I signed up for ClassPass, which allows me to take 10 classes a month at boutique fitness facilities (though no more than three at any club in a month) for $90/month. It's a great value, I get a great variety classes and it has encouraged me to try some classes while on the road (I have taken classes in NY, Orange County, Phoenix and Seattle over the past couple of months).

[hhuffines]

Jason,


Our fitness center is full almost the entire day and is used a lot at night.  It's actually smaller than it should be because they didn't anticipate the demand.  We have lots of classes, weights, and machines.  Not that I go very often...  that said we are an in town Club, very convenient for most members.

[Mike_Young]

I think you will see many of the large banquet/dining/wedding areas converted to racquet ball courts, fitness centers, bed and breakfast type rooms and in some cases even daycare ( would allow for some deduction).  For years many clubs have tried to show a profit from banquet business but it is only because the fully allocated cost of the banquet is often subsidized by dues and the "cost of the room" is allocated by the hour etc during the actual event.  In our area the girls don't want weddings at the club any more and are going to various places such as farms and botanical gardens.  So, I think those stuck with large clubhouses have to find a way to make the footage work.

[Mike Sweeney]

"Mariner Sands constructed an 8,000 sq ft, state-of-art facility with the help of Life Fitness.  Just three months after making an initial $200,000 investment in fitness equipment, they had done over $50,000 in training revenue (meaning they were on pace to pay off their initial investment in less than a year)."
______________________

Not against this, but would love to ALSO see: "And when you walk the golf course, you will burn 1200-1800 calories for 18 holes to complement your fitness program...."

As presented, it looks like a "$$ upgrade" to existing memberships. I would prefer to see an "integration" with the golf membership. It took me many years to understand that walking/hiking/carrying my bag burns calories more than triathlons/running/gym time depending...

[BCowan]

I think you will see many of the large banquet/dining/wedding areas converted to racquet ball courts, fitness centers, bed and breakfast type rooms and in some cases even daycare ( would allow for some deduction).  For years many clubs have tried to show a profit from banquet business but it is only because the fully allocated cost of the banquet is often subsidized by dues and the "cost of the room" is allocated by the hour etc during the actual event.  In our area the girls don't want weddings at the club any more and are going to various places such as farms and botanical gardens.  So, I think those stuck with large clubhouses have to find a way to make the footage work.

Great post, I've said this for a decade.  Farmhouse weddings are popular in SE MI.  Indoor Pickleball in the winter! 

[BHoover]

I'd love to have an on-site squash court.

[John Kavanaugh]

So now the young guys want indoor racquet sports to go with their golf, cheeseburgers and beer?

[BCowan]

Thank you John, I appreciate being referred to as a young guy, my wife calls me an old man.  I forgot Bocce ball, great drinking game and a great addition to a club. 

[Ian Mackenzie]

I have seen/heard this issue be debated extensively.


The "bottoms up" driver (from a BOD perspective)has always been: "How do we keep our members "on campus" (on the grounds) more to drive incremental revenue to the club?" If members are also paying $xx/mo. at fitness clubs, will they switch their habits and come here instead?


The bi-product, of course, is always "greater services to our members", etc. as the selling point.


This can work at some places, like Florida. But, at most golf/country clubs, this almost never works as planned.


First, there is the huge liability issue. Once your resident lawyer/board member gets his requisite disclaimers presented, it becomes instantly unattractive.


Second, you are then asking your GM - who is a facilities and hospitality guy - to be in the "health services" business. Ouch.


Third, the very nature of the "health club" is changing from just having weights and machines to offering personal training, robust and diverse group fitness classes, yoga and other specialty exercises.....even spa/massage services. Just look at the very successful Equinox clubs in Boston, NYC, Chicago, Miami, Dallas and SF.


You want to compete with that? No, thanks.

[Dave Doxey]

It’s about GOLF!  That is the business a club is in.  Keep attention on the sole reason for the club existing.

The club does not need a fitness center, fancy restaurant, racquetball, boccie, pickle-ball, playgrounds, swimming, etc.

A club gets into trouble when it chases every “It would be really great to have xxxx…..” idea.

It would be really great to get my oil changed while I play golf, or maybe get my dry cleaning done, perhaps add that?

Adding non-golf businesses to a club requires spending, and perhaps debt, which adds to the financial burden and risk.  Management attention is needed to operate them.  There are businesses that focus on these other non-golf services, and will always do a better job at providing them.  Why compete in that space?

More importantly, it dilutes management and financial focus on providing quality golf.  Spending time and money in non-golf areas starts a downward spiral, where costs go up, golf experience quality stagnates or declines, and members depart.

Some may argue that these non-golf services will attract a few more members, but I challenge anyone to show that the additional revenue generated is enough to offset the cost.  If a club is struggling to support it’s golf business – focus on improvements to the golf business – not on getting into other non-golf businesses.  Golf generates the revenue.

Spend every available dollar on the quality of golf at the club. Win the loyalty and dollars of golfers. Get a reputation of providing outstanding golf and a club will attract members.

Several years ago, I had breakfast with Jackie Burke at Champions and he talked about this approach, saying that the club only had a pool and formal restaurant because members demanded it and he’d have preferred to spend that money on the courses.

[John Kavanaugh]

A few years ago I was at the Health Club and saw three guys playing tennis and asked if they needed a fourth. It's been a wonderful journey with my new tennis buds that I would have missed if I had centralized my recreation to one facility centered around golf. It's good to get outside the confines of our comfort zones and if not meet at least sweat around some different people.

[PCCraig]

At my home club, there is a "fitness center" in the basement near the locker rooms. There are 3 elliptical machines, 3 treadmills, a bike, and weights plus a few TV's on the wall. It's all jammed into a room that is maybe 20x35ft. It gets a decent amount of use all year long typically in the early morning and mid morning after the various stay at home moms drop their kids off at school. I think it's a nice amenity to have, and in the grand scheme of things not all that expensive.


This past fall, there was a proposal for a big new clubhouse addition. It included a massive 3000+ sq ft fitness center complete with rooms for group classes, etc. The club had hired a consultant well known firm that got up at a meeting and declared that golf is dead (even though our club's rounds and membership #'s are way up) and that country clubs should cater to younger members through fitness centers, coffee shop vibes, etc. While the current fitness center is used, it's hardly so busy you can't use a machine and the thought of a club trying to compete with a large fitness center chain (Lifetime, etc.) or an established downtown club seemed like a lost cause.

[Ryan Taylor]

Several years ago, I had breakfast with Jackie Burke at Champions and he talked about this approach, saying that the club only had a pool and formal restaurant because members demanded it and he’d have preferred to spend that money on the courses.

Old school! Champions sounds like a fantastic place.

[BHoover]

It’s about GOLF!  That is the business a club is in.  Keep attention on the sole reason for the club existing.

The club does not need a fitness center, fancy restaurant, racquetball, boccie, pickle-ball, playgrounds, swimming, etc.

A club gets into trouble when it chases every “It would be really great to have xxxx…..” idea.

It would be really great to get my oil changed while I play golf, or maybe get my dry cleaning done, perhaps add that?

Adding non-golf businesses to a club requires spending, and perhaps debt, which adds to the financial burden and risk.  Management attention is needed to operate them.  There are businesses that focus on these other non-golf services, and will always do a better job at providing them.  Why compete in that space?

More importantly, it dilutes management and financial focus on providing quality golf.  Spending time and money in non-golf areas starts a downward spiral, where costs go up, golf experience quality stagnates or declines, and members depart.

Some may argue that these non-golf services will attract a few more members, but I challenge anyone to show that the additional revenue generated is enough to offset the cost.  If a club is struggling to support it’s golf business – focus on improvements to the golf business – not on getting into other non-golf businesses.  Golf generates the revenue.

Spend every available dollar on the quality of golf at the club. Win the loyalty and dollars of golfers. Get a reputation of providing outstanding golf and a club will attract members.

Several years ago, I had breakfast with Jackie Burke at Champions and he talked about this approach, saying that the club only had a pool and formal restaurant because members demanded it and he’d have preferred to spend that money on the courses.

So I suppose asking for a curling facility is a non-starter?

[Ian Mackenzie]

It’s about GOLF!  That is the business a club is in.  Keep attention on the sole reason for the club existing.

The club does not need a fitness center, fancy restaurant, racquetball, boccie, pickle-ball, playgrounds, swimming, etc.

A club gets into trouble when it chases every “It would be really great to have xxxx…..” idea.

It would be really great to get my oil changed while I play golf, or maybe get my dry cleaning done, perhaps add that?

Adding non-golf businesses to a club requires spending, and perhaps debt, which adds to the financial burden and risk.  Management attention is needed to operate them.  There are businesses that focus on these other non-golf services, and will always do a better job at providing them.  Why compete in that space?

More importantly, it dilutes management and financial focus on providing quality golf.  Spending time and money in non-golf areas starts a downward spiral, where costs go up, golf experience quality stagnates or declines, and members depart.

Some may argue that these non-golf services will attract a few more members, but I challenge anyone to show that the additional revenue generated is enough to offset the cost.  If a club is struggling to support it’s golf business – focus on improvements to the golf business – not on getting into other non-golf businesses.  Golf generates the revenue.

Spend every available dollar on the quality of golf at the club. Win the loyalty and dollars of golfers. Get a reputation of providing outstanding golf and a club will attract members.

Several years ago, I had breakfast with Jackie Burke at Champions and he talked about this approach, saying that the club only had a pool and formal restaurant because members demanded it and he’d have preferred to spend that money on the courses.

So I suppose asking for a curling facility is a non-starter?

Great club here in Chicago has one - Exmoor!!! Hosted Western Am a few years ago and has curling.

[BHoover]

So I suppose asking for a curling facility is a non-starter?

Great club here in Chicago has one - Exmoor!!! Hosted Western Am a few years ago and has curling.

I know at least one club in Cleveland has one. Here in the Twin Cities, there are several curling clubs, but I'm surprised there aren't country/golf clubs with curling. Several clubs do set up skating/hockey rinks during the winter.


In all seriousness, I'm not suggesting that fitness or other sports facilities should detract from golf. But in an area where the course is closed 3-4 months per year, I can see the desire to offer other activities to keep members engaged and coming out to the club, particularly if you have young children.

[Mike_Young]

It’s about GOLF!  That is the business a club is in.  Keep attention on the sole reason for the club existing.

The club does not need a fitness center, fancy restaurant, racquetball, boccie, pickle-ball, playgrounds, swimming, etc.

A club gets into trouble when it chases every “It would be really great to have xxxx…..” idea.

It would be really great to get my oil changed while I play golf, or maybe get my dry cleaning done, perhaps add that?

Adding non-golf businesses to a club requires spending, and perhaps debt, which adds to the financial burden and risk.  Management attention is needed to operate them.  There are businesses that focus on these other non-golf services, and will always do a better job at providing them.  Why compete in that space?

More importantly, it dilutes management and financial focus on providing quality golf.  Spending time and money in non-golf areas starts a downward spiral, where costs go up, golf experience quality stagnates or declines, and members depart.

Some may argue that these non-golf services will attract a few more members, but I challenge anyone to show that the additional revenue generated is enough to offset the cost.  If a club is struggling to support it’s golf business – focus on improvements to the golf business – not on getting into other non-golf businesses.  Golf generates the revenue.

Spend every available dollar on the quality of golf at the club. Win the loyalty and dollars of golfers. Get a reputation of providing outstanding golf and a club will attract members.

Several years ago, I had breakfast with Jackie Burke at Champions and he talked about this approach, saying that the club only had a pool and formal restaurant because members demanded it and he’d have preferred to spend that money on the courses.

At a golf club you may be right but at a country club it's all about making the huge clubhouses work and that boils down to revenue per sq ft.  and for that reason health clubs etc are coming in to vogue....it can be sold as not needing to pay dues at an outside club and can also help attract....

[PCCraig]

In all seriousness, I'm not suggesting that fitness or other sports facilities should detract from golf. But in an area where the course is closed 3-4 months per year, I can see the desire to offer other activities to keep members engaged and coming out to the club, particularly if you have young children.

In Chicago the answer to your question is paddle tennis. Golf course closes and everyone flocks to the paddle courts.


There are a few clubs around here that have courts, but for whatever reason the sport hasn't caught on that much. I hear Minikahda has a nice set up (I've been in the Paddle hut, but only during the golf season) and an active player base.

[Ian Mackenzie]

In all seriousness, I'm not suggesting that fitness or other sports facilities should detract from golf. But in an area where the course is closed 3-4 months per year, I can see the desire to offer other activities to keep members engaged and coming out to the club, particularly if you have young children.

In Chicago the answer to your question is paddle tennis. Golf course closes and everyone flocks to the paddle courts.


There are a few clubs around here that have courts, but for whatever reason the sport hasn't caught on that much. I hear Minikahda has a nice set up (I've been in the Paddle hut, but only during the golf season) and an active player base.

That is 100% true.
Also the case in NJ, NY, CT and MA.


"Paddle" is huge here in Chicago. Men's leagues, women's leagues, "pro" tournaments, etc. We have hosted the national championships twice recently.

[Steve Lang]

  Dave Doxey,

Did jackie B also mention that the pool acted as a water supply for the building's sprinkler system to reduce insurance costs?  I read that one a long time ago...

Certainly golf club vs country club makes the difference...

[David_Tepper]

"Just look at the very successful Equinox clubs in Boston, NYC, Chicago, Miami, Dallas and SF."

Speaking of the Equinox club in San Francisco, it occupies the purpose-built building of the former Pacific Coast Stock Exchange, where I spent some time in my younger days. It is still a little jarring to see the former trading floor now occupied by row after row of stationary bicycles.    

[Marc Haring]

Every club has a wellness centre. It's called "the bar".

[BCowan]

Every club has a wellness centre. It's called "the bar".

Marc,

 Post of the year!  Bocce ball is a drinking game!  Turn that dinning room into indoor putt putt in the winter!  Cheeseburgers, booze, beer, Indoor golf simulators, Putt putt, and Bocce!  Since that 50,000 sqft clubhouse is tanking money, focus on inexpressive things that encourage drinking!  The Wellness center!     

[Rich Goodale]

Excellent post, Jason.


Unless golf embraces the hopes, needs and desires of this changing world, it will become more and more sclerotic, never dying but asymptotically approaching oblivion and influence.


The paper you attached is close to both me and my wife, who is in a Masters course on the very subject, being taught by the Professors at the Univerity of Edinburgh in the attached green insert.


The future of golf is not the ABCs of the golf of our fathers and grandfathers.  Not Alcoholism nor Anti-whateverism, Not Bowling nor Banquets, not Couch Potatoism nor Cliques.  How about:


Athleticism and Achievement
Building and Becoming
Caring and Cooperation


?

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