Unrated Courses you plan to play and why ?

[Robin_Hiseman]

I'm going to go see three or four courses around Manila on my Asian trip around the first of March.  The highest-rated courses in the country are real-estate driven designs by Robert Trent Jones Jr. and Tom Weiskopf, which I'm sure are just fine, but since Darius and Masa have already reported on those, I will try to see something different.  The two most interesting based on my research are Club Intramuros in the city -- a 4500-yard course built inside the old city fortifications, redesigned by one of the Dye family twenty years ago, and lighted for night play -- and something called Tagaytay Highlands, which is built on such a severe site that you play downhill for nine holes, take a sky ride back up to the pro shop, and play back down another way for the second nine!  I'm guessing David Moriarty would not be a fan


The other course I would like to see, but probably won't because of the travel difficulties, is the Camp John Hay course at Baguio, the old U.S. military base up in the mountains [and out of the heat].  It was redone by Jack Nicklaus a few years ago, but apparently the land is both severely hilly and restricted acreage, so it's only a 5000-yard course ... I'd be curious to see what Jack would build for such a project.


Why?  I just want to see something different.

Tom

Might just see you out there as I am shortly starting on a new project not a million miles from Tagaytay Highlands, which I too shall be fascinated to see at some point.

I'd recommend you find your way to Sun Valley, near the old Clark air force base, about 90 minutes out of Manila. The location of the course, on very severe terrain, is quite extraordinary. The courses are built on the pyroclastic flow channels of Mount Pinatubo, which you may remember blew its lid in pretty spectacular fashion back in 1991. You look out over this primeval landscape of deep river channels cut through the ash flows, or lahar, as its known. it's other worldly. If the mountain ever blows again, the whole place will be toast!

It's one of the most frenetic golf operations I've seen, with a clientele almost exclusively made up of hard drinking and gambling South Koreans, who pitch up in their masses for three solid days of 36-holes of golf daily, nights spent blowing a wad in the casino and whatever other mischief they can get up to. It is also notable for the caddy program...but i'll leave you to discover the particular pleasures of that!

[Niall C]

As a bit of a tangent to the usual great course lists I’d be interested in hearing what unrated or at least not highly rated course you are interested in seeking out and why. I suspect we all have one. A couple of years ago I visited Greenock Whinhill GC about 20 miles outside Glasgow. I doubt Whinhill is much known outwith the immediate area and certainly in my half decade of living within 30 minutes drive I’d never heard anyone mention it.
Niall

Growing up in Greenock, WhinHILL is the local council course so was where I played my first few years as a junior. To be honest I mostly remember walking up that endless ascent from the town - with wee 12 year old legs and carrying clubs and shoes it was a hurdle just to get to the course. Fun times though.

Ian


I don't think you could find a more modest set-up with the starter/ranger/money man operating out of a shipping container and the course set up being so basic as it is. No fancy mowing patterns, one height of rough (quite low) and no trees/bushes. A perfect antidote to all the trappings of a private club. I loved it.


The reason for going as I said was to see some unbuggered about with Fernie design. You can never be too sure but I think that is largely what is there with some really nice work from Braid. That was what caught my interest in the first place.


Niall 

[hhuffines]

We have two in Eastern NC that I'm interested in.  Scotch Hall Preserve and Cutter Creek.  Friends who have played both say they are solid.

[BCowan]

Diamond Springs,  I've only played it once and it's such a great course.  Hope to tee it when the course is firmer and to walk it.  It's a shame this course gets overlooked, it's Michigan Top 25 material! 

[BHoover]

I'd like to go back home and play Springfield CC again.

[BCowan]

I'd like to go back home and play Springfield CC again.

I'd like to join you Sir...

[Jason Topp]

Courses that seem interesting to me but are not rated as far as I know all involve some sort of strong memory:

1.  Brackenridge Park - San Antonio - Some of the stories about the place stick with me.  Hogan had one of his early failures there.  Tillinghast wrote about the course quite a bit.  For a long time the PGA Tour 72 hole scoring record was Mike Souchek's (not sure of spelling) 257.  There was a renovation within the last 10 years that looks pretty good.

2.  The Ranch - San Jose, CA - from every description it might be the worst course in the US.  The course tour suggests it is a brutal experience.  I need to see that.  Last time I tried they only had 14 holes open.

3.  Stillwater Country Club, MN - this is a US club that seems to have found the magic formula of providing affordable membership and a good golf course.  For a variety of reasons I have visited the club but hope to remedy that soon.

4.  Tennison Park, Dallas - I have hit balls here a few times when visiting my son at SMU.  The place oozes history and you can just imagine Titanic Thompson or Lee Trevino working on their next victim.   The golf does not appear special.  The old golf course looks terrible and the new course looks like any other modern course.  Nonetheless, the hat I bought from there is terrible and I would like a better one.

5.  Phoenix Country Club - I went to the Phoenix Open here in 1986 with a friend.  We were both Jack Nicklaus fans and my friend wanted to follow Jack.  I decided Jack's career was done and I did not really want to fight crowds so I decided instead to follow Morris Hatalsky, who I had adopted as the player I would follow primarily because his name seemed funny.  There were about four of us watching Hatalsky's group, which included Gary Koch and a taller guy whose name I forget.  The other members of the gallery were probably family because the players kind of looked at me funny as I followed them around. 

Since that time I have stayed at a Hotel for work near the club a few times and have always wanted to go back and play it.  They renovated around 10 years ago and the course now looks to be quite good.   

6.  Wakonda Country Club - Des Moines.  This club was the height of exclusivity when I was a kid.  It hosted a fundraiser for MS and allowed me to see my first professional golfers - Lee Trevino and Jan Stephenson. 

The first time I played it was in a practice round for US Junior qualifying and I was paired up with Jerry Smith, who went on to play on the PGA Tour and was a couple of years older than me.  He was good.  It was my first hint I might not quite be ready for US Junior qualifying.  During the event, Mike McCoy who recently won the US Mid-Am but then was probably about to enter college, caddied for my playing partner.  Thoroughly rattled by this point, I shot 100 in the first round and might have broken 90 in the second.  Mike was really nice, even as an 18 year old but I do remember his comment that "the USGA might want to check on your handicap."  It stung, even though I am confident he did not intend it that way. 

I played it a few more times in events and had more success but have not been back in over 30 years.  I knew its design was unique at the time but would appreciate the Langford features and understand much more today. 
 

[BHoover]

3.  Stillwater Country Club, MN - this is a US club that seems to have found the magic formula of providing affordable membership and a good golf course.  For a variety of reasons I have visited the club but hope to remedy that soon.

There definitely needs to be more discussion about Stillwater. You describe it well, a course that seems to have found the right formula of affordable membership and a good golf course. I really have to wonder why we don't see more of this in the US. In my uneducated opinion, Stillwater seems to be more akin to the type of club one might expect to see in the UK, Ireland, or Australia. At some point, economic reality may force clubs to adopt this formula. I look forward to getting back to Stillwater at some point.

[BCowan]

3.  Stillwater Country Club, MN - this is a US club that seems to have found the magic formula of providing affordable membership and a good golf course.  For a variety of reasons I have visited the club but hope to remedy that soon.

There definitely needs to be more discussion about Stillwater. You describe it well, a course that seems to have found the right formula of affordable membership and a good golf course. I really have to wonder why we don't see more of this in the US. In my uneducated opinion, Stillwater seems to be more akin to the type of club one might expect to see in the UK, Ireland, or Australia. At some point, economic reality may force clubs to adopt this formula. I look forward to getting back to Stillwater at some point.

Hoover,

   It seems like these points you have brought up could help out on the Philly thread.  I looked at Stillwater's website and seems like my kinda place.  They even list their membership dues on their website, some on here might be outraged by that  .  We wouldn't want to learn from successful club models, then some would have to admit they were wrong.  Men don't typically like to do that. 

[David Wuthrich]

I plan on returning to the course that I learned to play the game on 43 years ago.


Why - because it is closing

[George Pazin]

I plan on returning to the course that I learned to play the game on 43 years ago.


Why - because it is closing

Sorry to read that. Not that I have any knowledge of which course this is, just that I think the course where you learn the game is always an integral part of any golfer's soul.


To that end, I'll certainly be teeing it up this year at my home muni, North Park GC. I don't think it's in jeopardy, I think it's a cash cow for the County. Hopefully this year my son will join me for the first time.


Every year my goals are the same: 1) be meaner and 2) make it to Wolf Point. Too soon to comment on the first goal yet, but I'm really hoping to cross off the 2nd this year, or worst case, next year.


I'm also really hoping to play a round with Evan Fleisher and to make it up to The Loop.


Here's to dreamin'!

[Tim Leahy]

Courses that seem interesting to me but are not rated as far as I know all involve some sort of strong memory:



2.  The Ranch - San Jose, CA - from every description it might be the worst course in the US.  The course tour suggests it is a brutal experience.  I need to see that.  Last time I tried they

Jason if you make it to SJ for the Ranch shoot me a PM and I will split a cart with you because it is unwalkable. Bring balls because if you miss a green or fairway your ball is down a canyon. I played it once years ago and although the gca is bad it can be fun like a rollercoaster.

[Clyde Johnson]

I stopped by Whinhill last May, but only managed to walk a few holes as I wanted to take a look at Fereneze too. I was pretty impressed by the finishing four, even if the shaping of the devilish 15th green is rather rudimentary. On a rare sunny day, the view as you approach to the semi-blind/horizon 17th is something!

How about the clubhouse...some heavy security measures!?

Would be tempted to head back there someday for a game.

As a bit of a tangent to the usual great course lists I’d be interested in hearing what unrated or at least not highly rated course you are interested in seeking out and why. I suspect we all have one. A couple of years ago I visited Greenock Whinhill GC about 20 miles outside Glasgow. I doubt Whinhill is much known outwith the immediate area and certainly in my half decade of living within 30 minutes drive I’d never heard anyone mention it.
Niall

Growing up in Greenock, WhinHILL is the local council course so was where I played my first few years as a junior. To be honest I mostly remember walking up that endless ascent from the town - with wee 12 year old legs and carrying clubs and shoes it was a hurdle just to get to the course. Fun times though.

Ian


I don't think you could find a more modest set-up with the starter/ranger/money man operating out of a shipping container and the course set up being so basic as it is. No fancy mowing patterns, one height of rough (quite low) and no trees/bushes. A perfect antidote to all the trappings of a private club. I loved it.


The reason for going as I said was to see some unbuggered about with Fernie design. You can never be too sure but I think that is largely what is there with some really nice work from Braid. That was what caught my interest in the first place.


Niall

[Niall C]

Clyde

Exellent. That's me, you and Ian, and if we can get one more we've got a fourball !

Totally agree about 15th. Not that big a fan of plateau greens as you might know if you read any of my drivel, but that's a belter of a par 3 with the water behind. The drive at the par 4 next is also terrific. The benched green is deceptive in that if you land on the right half you've got more chance of running off to the right than you think. The slope is fairly pronounced.

I've never yet found a plan showing the original nine holes that Fernie did but suspect those last four holes are Braid, and I also suspect the two par 3's farthest from the road are his as well with the green on the second one being a Fernie green originally played from the other direction.

Somebody needs to do a photo tour.

Niall 

[Niall C]

Niall,


As we discussed at Goswick, East Ren is definitely on my radar for 2017. I'll let you know should I get a date organised.

Michael

Just let me know when and I'll see if I can join you. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

I've been having lessons ar Newcastle City, which may have a bit of Colt left.  I'm planning to play there when it gets. But drier.

[James Boon]

Thinking of some of the lesser known courses I'd like to play it occured to me most are up in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. Jon W lists a few on this and other threads I've not played (hadnt even heard of Spean Bridge) and the likes of Gairloch, Glencruitten, Iona and several others I'm keen to see. Most of these will be something like a tenner in an honesty box which is just perfect!


However nearer to home I cant really think of any that arent reasonably well known? Only one I'm keen to see that I havent is Torksey near Lincoln, though I suppose I'd like to get back to Sickleholme near Hathersage, Derbyshire  as I've only played there once many years ago.


Thanks to this website and those of us on it, I find there isnt much that flys under the radar, though we forget about how other golfers see things  [size=78%] A good example would be Huntercombe which I think I'd heard of before being on here but have been lucky enough to play it several times now. Its got pedigree as a Park Jnr course and yet as its not listed in most GB&I top 100s, most golfers I know have never even heard of it![/size]

[size=78%]Cheers,[/size]

[size=78%]James[/size]

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Because it has been well over 40 years, I will be playing Pine Lake CC and Bloomfield Hills CC.  Though neither are great courses, as a kid who got to play great courses, I thought there were some cool holes.  Most importantly, I have to spread some of my Mom's ashes there, because she grew up at those clubs along with Orchard Lake, which is a great course!

[David McIntosh]

Niall,


As we discussed at Goswick, East Ren is definitely on my radar for 2017. I'll let you know should I get a date organised.

Michael

Just let me know when and I'll see if I can join you. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Niall

Michael, Niall,

East Ren wasn't a course I knew much (anything!) about but your references in this thread intrigued me to learn more about it this afternoon. I checked out their website and it does look fantastic - please let me know if there's a spare space when you get a date arranged as I'd love to join you both to see it for myself.

[MCirba]

I still need to get to Chicago as it's by far the biggest hole in my US resume.   One course that will be on that eventual visit is Downer's Grove, as C.B. Macdonald's original Chicago Golf Club.

However, this year it's more likely that my travel will be more limited due to work demands but one likely long weekend is shaping up to possibly include Canterbury on the way out, then driving to Dayton for Moraine.   

Along with those two heavy-hitters I'll be sure to include Community Golf Course in Dayton as the site where Joe Coble of Cobb's Creek GC won the 1924 US Publinks tournament, and on the way back swinging near Akron to play here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LClaxCtfSCY

Joe Bausch and I did a similar thing this past year playing historic muni Ottawa Park in the morning before Inverness in the afternoon.   It definitely helps one appreciate the game more when you return to your roots on a regular basis.

[BCowan]

Because it has been well over 40 years, I will be playing Pine Lake CC and Bloomfield Hills CC.  Though neither are great courses, as a kid who got to play great courses, I thought there were some cool holes.  Most importantly, I have to spread some of my Mom's ashes there, because she grew up at those clubs along with Orchard Lake, which is a great course!

Robert,

    I think you might be surprised.  Bloomfield Hills recently cut down 700 trees and being one of 2 Colt's left in the US I believe, the Par 3's are 2nd best set in the area IMO, and they have a couple great short par 4's.  If only Foster could have fully completed the Restoration.  With the new PD greens and low amount of play, the greens run so well you get pissed if you don't make a 30 footer   

[BCowan]

I still need to get to Chicago as it's by far the biggest hole in my US resume.   One course that will be on that eventual visit is Downer's Grove, as C.B. Macdonald's original Chicago Golf Club.

However, this year it's more likely that my travel will be more limited due to work demands but one likely long weekend is shaping up to possibly include Canterbury on the way out, then driving to Dayton for Moraine.   

Along with those two heavy-hitters I'll be sure to include Community Golf Course in Dayton as the site where Joe Coble of Cobb's Creek GC won the 1924 US Publinks tournament, and on the way back swinging near Akron to play here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LClaxCtfSCY

Joe Bausch and I did a similar thing this past year playing historic muni Ottawa Park in the morning before Inverness in the afternoon.   It definitely helps one appreciate the game more when you return to your roots on a regular basis.

Thanks for posting that video on Mr Powell. more people need to hear his story. 

[Chris_Blakely]

Mike

Along with those two heavy-hitters I'll be sure to include Community Golf Course in Dayton as the site where Joe Coble of Cobb's Creek GC won the 1924 US Publinks tournament, and on the way back swinging near Akron to play here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LClaxCtfSCY

Joe Bausch and I did a similar thing this past year playing historic muni Ottawa Park in the morning before Inverness in the afternoon.   It definitely helps one appreciate the game more when you return to your roots on a regular basis.

Wow Ottawa Park and historic!!  I wonder how much Art hills changed it when he did his renovation.  I remember reading that the course was significantly altered. You could play Spuyten Duyvall near me for another S. P. Jermain course!


I played all 36 at community several years ago and really enjoyed it.  The course has some very good terrain for golf.


Clearview golf club was a very unique experience from all the memorabilia in the clubhouse to the Powells that still run it!! Enjoy the remarkable Ohio marker on the first tee, the only such one in Ohio I know of!


http://www.remarkableohio.org/index.php?/category/1345


Chris

[Duncan Cheslett]

A few unheralded courses on my radar;


Sickleholme 
Holywell
Abersoch
Appleby
Holyhead


I have heard good reports on all of them from friends who have played there while in the area.

[MCirba]

Wow Ottawa Park and historic!!  I wonder how much Art hills changed it when he did his renovation.  I remember reading that the course was significantly altered. You could play Spuyten Duyvall near me for another S. P. Jermain course!

Chris

Chris,

From looking at aerial progression, most of Art Hills work was rebuilding/resizing greens, and adding bunkers and turning some low areas into formal ponds.   Most of the original Jermain routing remained the same.

However, I may have to play Spuyten Duyvall simply due to the cool name!