Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s Mammoth Dunes - All 18 pictured!

[John Kirk]

From the opening post:  "The land on the Kidd is a little hillier, but still very walkable. The Kidd will likely be more forgiving as there will be 120 acres of turf vs. 75 on the C&C."

120 acres is a lot of turf!  Anybody know the turf acreage on Bandon Dunes?  I think it's a little less than 120.   

[Ryan Farrow]

Here's a rendering of the new club house.  I like it!

Past the club house is the 18th fairway of the C+C.

Morgan, I wouldn't take that photo too literally, that is the 5th green on the C&C course in the foreground. The clubhouse does have a nice view into holes 1 & 18 on David's course.

[Morgan Clawson]

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[Howard Riefs]

Hole 14 – Par 4

This exhilarating downhill par 4 was featured in last year’s Golf Digest Armchair Architect contest. It will surely be one of the favorite holes on the course.  Long hitters will have a chance to use the side and downhill slopes to reach the green with their drive.

The hole plays all downhill from the top of the “V” ridge.  But, it’s the significant side hill slope and the 3 Sisters bunkers that must be managed.

From Golf Digest...


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/armchair-architect-2016-update-construction-and-kismet

[Morgan Clawson]

Just reposted my photos using Flickr.  Much better website than Photo Bucket.

[Howard Riefs]

Just reposted my photos using Flickr.  Much better website than Photo Bucket.

Thanks, Morgan.


As of August 1, nine holes on Mammoth Dunes are open for preview play: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 15, 16, 17, 18

http://www.sandvalleygolfresort.com/golf

[Garland Bayley]

Just reposted my photos using Flickr.  Much better website than Photo Bucket.

Thanks, Morgan.


As of August 1, nine holes on Mammoth Dunes are open for preview play: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 15, 16, 17, 18

http://www.sandvalleygolfresort.com/golf

Great visual on why courses should only have one or two tees near the previous green, and vary the par by player ability.

Where is Tom and his Olympic course design when you need him?

[Tom_Doak]

Where is Tom and his Olympic course design when you need him?

Unfortunately, still not working at Sand Valley!

[George Freeman]

Here are a few shots of my go around Mammoth Dunes last weekend.

#5
MD #5 (1) by George Freeman, on Flickr

MD #5 (2) by George Freeman, on Flickr

#16
MD #16 by George Freeman, on Flickr

#18
MD #18' by George Freeman, on Flickr

Bonus of Sand Valley from Craig's Porch (#18 shown)
SV #18 by George Freeman, on Flickr

[Daryl David]

Where is Tom and his Olympic course design when you need him?

Unfortunately, still not working at Sand Valley!

Does that mean Sand Valley #3 is not in the cards for Renaissance?  Say it isn't so!

[Tom_Doak]

Where is Tom and his Olympic course design when you need him?

Unfortunately, still not working at Sand Valley!

Does that mean Sand Valley #3 is not in the cards for Renaissance?  Say it isn't so!

It's still possible, but there has been no decision made about a third course.

[Daryl David]

Where is Tom and his Olympic course design when you need him?

Unfortunately, still not working at Sand Valley!

Does that mean Sand Valley #3 is not in the cards for Renaissance?  Say it isn't so!

It's still possible, but there has been no decision made about a third course.

Fingers crossed. 

[PCCraig]

I made it up to Sand Valley this past weekend for a couple of nights.


The resort itself is very nice. We stayed in the clubhouse rooms and it was terrific. I thought the rooms, food, service was a little more upscale generally than Bandon (which is the obvious comparison). It's clear the business model is to attract the higher net worth crowds from Chicago and the East Coast. (While we were there a foursome from NY who were staying at Kohler took a helicopter over for an afternoon round at Sand Valley, and returned after the round).


The golf is very good.


I thought Sand Valley was really terrific, especially the back nine. The par-3's are the strength of the golf course, for me, and I thought the 1st and 9th holes were a little weak/awkward.


Mammoth Dunes is really a sight to see. The scale of the course is very impressive and right from the opening tee shot you get a feel for the unbelievably wide fairways. There are some neat holes, like the semi blind par-3, the 16th the par-5 15th, and the par-5 18th with a crazy bunker to carry if you want to go for the green in two.


Tough to judge as only nine holes are open but Sand Valley certainly feels more strategic than Mammoth Dunes. I don't think you can really begin to "figure out" Sand Valley until you've played it a few times. There are many features that aren't clear on the first play and many lines of attack that become more clear after a bogey


Mammoth Dunes has a much more forgiving feeling where you can tend to just blast away with a driver (or on your second shot) with far fewer consequences for a poor shot. There are a few elements of danger but a lot less than the original course. The slopes on the putting surfaces are really benign...certainly not consistent with some of Kidd's other recent work such as Huntsman Springs. Not a bad thing just different than what you might expect.


One part of the experience that they need to figure out will be the pace of play. We were playing 4:45-5:00 hour rounds all weekend and it really takes away from the overall experience. That might work on a place like Whistling Straights but at a resort that is built on the Bandon model of "golf from sunrise to sunset" it really detracts. At one point on Saturday morning we were stuck behind 10 groups of golfers from the Outpost Club. We were on #16 green and we could see two groups on #17 and three on #18. We played again that afternoon in front of the Outpost Club and we caught a slow group on the 7th hole. While we were waiting on our second shots (the group ahead was 150 yards in front of us hitting their 3rd shot), the OC guys behind us started hitting their tee shots into us. When we yelled back that we were still in range and to hold up we had a lovely string of expletives yelled at us in return. No apologies, either. Classy.

[Morgan Clawson]

I made it back to Mammoth Dunes last week.  I played the 9 holes that are open now (1-5, 15-18) and walked the holes that are still being completed.

I updated the photos in the initial thread on page 1.  There are photos for 16 of the holes now.  The design of the upcoming holes that are mostly completed are fantastic.  Enjoy!

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

While I only saw Mammoth Dunes in the distance and didn't walk/play it, from the visuals it suited my eye better than Sand Valley. I wasn't expecting Sand Valley to be so sparse, and dare I say, sandy. Mammoth Dunes looks like there is more turf with more pine trees left in play. In my mind I expected a Pine Valley look, when in reality it was more Streamsong. The cool thing is the courses should offer a unique experience between the two.

To echo Pat's comments, play was slow but I attributed it to being a hard walk and not easy. I played with a guy who wasn't a bad player but didn't have a really good short game - he had trouble chipping off the tight lies and chunked or skulled numerous chips. I loved the playing surface personally but if you can't play around a bunker and have pinch a wedge high and get it to stop - but can't -   its tough. Can't believe the slope is that low.

Facilities were phenomenal. Congrats to the GCA members who are on the Founders list

[Michael Felton]

This picture reminds me quite a bit of the 8th hole at St Georges Hill in England. It's hard to tell the elevation changes from the picture, but here's a picture of the St Georges Hill hole I found on Google:

[Scott Weersing]

I made it up to Sand Valley this past weekend for a couple of nights.


The resort itself is very nice. We stayed in the clubhouse rooms and it was terrific. I thought the rooms, food, service was a little more upscale generally than Bandon (which is the obvious comparison). It's clear the business model is to attract the higher net worth crowds from Chicago and the East Coast. (While we were there a foursome from NY who were staying at Kohler took a helicopter over for an afternoon round at Sand Valley, and returned after the round).


The golf is very good.


I thought Sand Valley was really terrific, especially the back nine. The par-3's are the strength of the golf course, for me, and I thought the 1st and 9th holes were a little weak/awkward.


Mammoth Dunes is really a sight to see. The scale of the course is very impressive and right from the opening tee shot you get a feel for the unbelievably wide fairways. There are some neat holes, like the semi blind par-3, the 16th the par-5 15th, and the par-5 18th with a crazy bunker to carry if you want to go for the green in two.


Tough to judge as only nine holes are open but Sand Valley certainly feels more strategic than Mammoth Dunes. I don't think you can really begin to "figure out" Sand Valley until you've played it a few times. There are many features that aren't clear on the first play and many lines of attack that become more clear after a bogey


Mammoth Dunes has a much more forgiving feeling where you can tend to just blast away with a driver (or on your second shot) with far fewer consequences for a poor shot. There are a few elements of danger but a lot less than the original course. The slopes on the putting surfaces are really benign...certainly not consistent with some of Kidd's other recent work such as Huntsman Springs. Not a bad thing just different than what you might expect.


One part of the experience that they need to figure out will be the pace of play. We were playing 4:45-5:00 hour rounds all weekend and it really takes away from the overall experience. That might work on a place like Whistling Straights but at a resort that is built on the Bandon model of "golf from sunrise to sunset" it really detracts. At one point on Saturday morning we were stuck behind 10 groups of golfers from the Outpost Club. We were on #16 green and we could see two groups on #17 and three on #18. We played again that afternoon in front of the Outpost Club and we caught a slow group on the 7th hole. While we were waiting on our second shots (the group ahead was 150 yards in front of us hitting their 3rd shot), the OC guys behind us started hitting their tee shots into us. When we yelled back that we were still in range and to hold up we had a lovely string of expletives yelled at us in return. No apologies, either. Classy.

Do they have any marshals out there? At Bandon, there was one every three holes to speed up play.


Do they groom and smooth out all those bunkers? Or are they more like waste areas?


What about carts? Did you see anyone taking a cart? High end golfers often don't like to walk.

[Steve_Roths]

PC Craig,


Thanks for the write up.


Do you have any insight on the Par 3 course being completed in 2017?

Thanks.

[PCCraig]

PC Craig,


Thanks for the write up.


Do you have any insight on the Par 3 course being completed in 2017?

Thanks.

Hi Steve,


I am sure others here will have a lot more insight than myself with regards to the par-3. I just received an e-mail yesterday saying 6 holes of the par-3 will be open on September 1st. They had (yellow) pins on all of the greens last weekend, and from a distance it certainly looked playable. I only took a peek at it and it looks like a lot of fun.


One thing I found is that both the courses at Sand Valley are pretty tough walks...both are more equivalent to Bandon Trails than Bandon Dunes/Pacific Dunes. I walk nearly every round I play and after 36 I was feeling it a bit. A 17-hole par-3 course looks a lot more inviting at the end of the day than going back out on one of the two "big" courses.

[PCCraig]

Do they have any marshals out there? At Bandon, there was one every three holes to speed up play.

Do they groom and smooth out all those bunkers? Or are they more like waste areas?

What about carts? Did you see anyone taking a cart? High end golfers often don't like to walk.

They had a few marshals, but when we asked about slow play we received a few shrugs and "all you can do is keep up with the group ahead of you." We got done with the third hole at Sand Valley on Saturday morning and I asked the ranger if it was going to be this slow all day and she responded "you're right on pace!" She wasn't aware that we teed off 20 minutes early...


There were some marshals that were more helpful. One in particular was nice enough to call over to Mammoth Dunes to see if we could play our "back" nine over there after our front nine was slow going.


All the bunkers on Sand Valley that are reasonably in play have rakes. So I played them as hazards all weekend and not "waste" areas. The sand itself is interesting...it seemed a lot heavier than at Bandon (for example). I received some nasty plugged lies in that heavy sand and routine greenside shots can be pretty tough to judge. They are a hazard, for sure, and one buddy said as much when he said "the bunkers are actually hazards here." Would be curious to hear if others thought the same thing about the natural sand there.


I didn't see any carts. Saw lots of caddies. I believe you need a note from a Dr. to get a cart (like Bandon?).

[Edward Moody]

I was there in June and pace of play was an issue, as well.  The first day, a Thursday, was fine.  We played 36 and while it wasn't face paced, it was smooth.  We played 18 on Friday morning (our getaway day) and got stuck behind 4 older gentlemen that were seeing the course for the first time.  They didn't have caddies or a forecaddie and walked with rickshas.  We smelled trouble right then and there  These guys weren't good and lacked some etiquette.  I'm not knocking their skill level...I play with high handicaps that can get around quickly...but these guys just needed some caddie assistance.  SV is a tough walk, as mentioned prior, and there is a ton of sand as you can imagine.  These guys were hitting into the sand from the fairway and instead of coming back into the fairway sideways they continued to try and carry the long bunkers over and over.  Hit, rake, hit, rake, go back for the riskha.  Again, for a group like that, one forecaddie would have made a world of difference.  Plus, if one hasn't seen the course, it is very tricky to figure out where to go and what lines to take.


I sent a follow up message to some of the upper management I've gotten to know and they are aware of the issue.  I suggested they at least have mandatory forecaddies before noon on busy days.  If you are making the hike and spending the dough what's an extra $30/man?


Oh, and they had rangers w/clipboards scattered throughout the course checking times but I'm not sure how much power they have/what they could do.


Lastly, with five par 5s and five par 3s pace might always be an issue, esp given the tough walk and massive amounts of sand.

[PCCraig]

To echo Pat's comments, play was slow but I attributed it to being a hard walk and not easy. I played with a guy who wasn't a bad player but didn't have a really good short game - he had trouble chipping off the tight lies and chunked or skulled numerous chips. I loved the playing surface personally but if you can't play around a bunker and have pinch a wedge high and get it to stop - but can't -   its tough. Can't believe the slope is that low.

Ryan,


I thought the playing surfaces were terrific but you are correct they are tough if you are used to a more traditional Midwest (green) fairway. The greens are also very undulating and you would have to imagine 3-putts are common among 15+ handicappers.


To be fair, we were playing on a weekend and behind a large group playing a tournament. Hopefully the pace of play gets better when all 18 on Mammoth Dunes opens up letting the groups spread out a bit.

[Morgan Clawson]

I don't feel that the walk on the Sand Valley course is that difficult from a terrain perspective.  I think the walk at Mammoth Dunes will be slightly more difficult.   However, you are exposed to full sunlight for 4-5 hours, and that takes a toll.  Eating correctly and being hydrated is important.

Regarding the sand -  I agree that it's heavier than sand found in many traditional traps.  You have to take a good whack at it!

The Sand Valley Resort website says the 17 hole short course will be open in Spring, 2018.  People staying at Sand Valley lodging in September and October, 2017 can play complimentary 6 holes loops.

[Bill Boonn]

I was fortunate to play a few additional holes beyond the 9 holes open for preview play at Mammoth Dunes.  Here are a few pictures from that round:


Hole 6, short Par 4:


Tee shot



Approach:



Green:





Hole 7, par 5:


Tee:



Fairway:



Approach:



Greenside:





Looking back from the green:





8th hole, downhill par 3:



Looking back from the green:





Hole 9, par 4:


Tee area:



Fairway:



Green:



Panoramic view of the green:



Hole 10: short par 4



Fairway:



Green:







A few holes were still not open for play:


11 hasn't fully grown in:



12 looks almost ready:

[Morgan Clawson]

I just updated the first 3 posts on page 1 to include photos of all of the holes.

All 18 holes are now grassed and growing-in nicely.  The last 3 holes to be completed - 11,12,13 - turned out great, and are some of the strongest on the course.

Sand Valley will likely close for the season on November 5.  Get thee to 'Sconny in the next few weeks to sample this fun golf course.