Beth has flashbacks, Se-Ri & Annika Spar At The Woodlands TPC, This Weekend

[Steve Lang]

 

This weekend on NBC the world will watch the Samsung Championship at The TPC in The Woodlands, TX with the LPGA's top 20.  As historically a challenging PGA course, partially due to scheduling and lower ranked fields, it will be interesting to see how the ladies' shotmaking skills hold up.

Like the course or not, its the only LPGA event in TX, which is strange in itself, but the larger issue is will the LPGA inherit many of the classic course venues since the men of the PGA or USGA won't be coming back soon?

 

[Bill_McBride]

Don't know the answer to the main question, but do know I miss the Houston Open with the TPC course and those reachable par 5's on the back nine and the excellent 17th hole.  That course is fun to play and really fun to watch PGA play on TV.  But I guess Freddy Couples likes the new course a lot!

[Steve Lang]

Bill,

When we do our home & home Pensacola-Houston series we'll have to have a round on the TPC for ya..

The SHO's new home is a hit it, find it, and repeat type power golf venue.  Something Feddy couldn't do at the TPC, even though he had 90% of the crowd rooting for him, though VJ did power through it the last year it was here in the Woodlands.  

I remember watching when Payne Stewart won over Hoch, who blew a 7 stroke lead... it should be fun to see the ladies play, perhaps in a 10 year lag type mode from that of the PGA presence.  After all, while Wie probably couldn't match the driver, 6-iron that i saw Daly do last time here on #13, maybe driver, 4-iron.. that'd be impressive!  We'll see what Anika does instead!

[Raymond]

The ladies were here in Portland last week at Columbia Edgewater. They had the course set up at 6300 yards as a par 72. It normally plays a little longer than that from the blue tees and at par 71. They had a pretty easy time with it. They haven't changed the set-up (length) in the past 5 years and with the technology the girls are eating it up. I don't understand why they don't move it back some, it would stretch to almost 6600.

What yardage will they play at Woodlands TPC? They could really make that a stern test. The course is not great but most of the finishing holes, #13, #14, #17and #18 are pretty darn good holes. That course could give them all they can handle if set up properly.

[Steve Lang]

Hey Ray,

I understand they are setting it up for 6400 yards.  Ms. Sheila reports that the greens are in fantastic shape and they plan to get them Stimping to 12+... the the rough is well grown in so it should be interesting for newcomers.

Most new amatuer players i've watched at this course seem to have problems induced by visual issues..  

The raised green complexes like at #2, 6, 10, 12, 14 & 15 give a false impression of the size, depth, width etc of the putting surfaces.

The mounding and moguls that frame things seem out of  range but stray tee shots easily bring them into play thoughout the course, like at #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 13, & 15.  

The overall flatness can seduce one into hitting away with impunity rather than placing setting up shots.

I would expect the lady pros to learn these problems quickly, but having seen many pga'ers struggling from the bermuda bumps and traps,  I imagine there'll be some tough lessons learned.

The subtle green contours should challenge..

[Thomas_Brown]

I'll bite - My opinions:
1) #13 - No way the ladies go for this in 2, right?(Wie the exception)
Their 3 wood approach won't stop on that green.
2) #17 approach should be fun for women.

I've played there and love it, but I never thought of it as one of the harder courses on tour.  I watched the tournament in 98 and 99(followed Duval to victory on the back one year).
There are some funny layups out there - too few drives in the hands of those guys.

BTW -The 11th green back hole location is one of the best I've seen for a shortish par 4.

[Steve Lang]

 

TB
Personally I think Ms Wie should go back to 8th grade and grow up a little as a person and truly earn her way onto the LPGA tour vs. using sponsor exemptions to play without consequence, but that's my problem.. that said,..  it'll be rare for any of the ladies to get onto #13 in two unless they hve the tees up to entice them.  Likely ranking of likelihood is #1, 15, 6, & lastly 13, certainly Jeff Maggert could offer some suggestions there at #13 for Sunday play!

On #17 I expect to see many shots in the water and on the back hillside.

On #18 it will beinteresting to see how many ladies do deep down the left side to take the water out of play and how they like the Sunday pin placements on 16, 17, & 18..

It should be driver heaven or hell for the ladies, so is this just the beginning of recycling courses, I say so.  Especially when the PGA goes away.. What venue will be next?

[III]

I used to work at Onion Creek in Austin, TX the last site the LPGA Tour used in Texas.  From the back tees the course plays to roughly 6,500 and is a par 70, but we set it up to just over 6,000.  The year Laura Davies won only 3 of 4 women shot under par.  I found it interesting because it is not that difficult of a golf course.  

So, I think for more of the old PGA venues to be used they would have to set the courses up much easier and not grow the rough up near as much.

[Steve Lang]

III,

They're setting things up around theTPC's  "white tees", which is only about 600 yards shorter than the tips.. this makes quite a difference for most men.  Also, this course has never been regarded as lady friendly from the Red tees.

I think its a shame that Onion Creek, birthplace of the Champions Tour and host to the LPGA last in 2000, hasn't continued on as a tourney site.. I would think the Demerit + Coore-Crenshaw mixture would be better regarded, or is it simply too difficult??  

[III]

Steve-

The reason it did not stay as a Tour stop is because Philips the title sponsor for the first 2 years pulled out.  They had just invested in the Philips Arena in Atlanta.  The sponsor for the 3rd and final year was Kathy Ireland and it was stated up front that they would only do it for one year.

Some talk has been made about possibly trying to get the  US Open there, but I think that all just talk.  

I look forward to seeing how the ladies do at the TPC, it should be interesting.

[RJ_Daley]

Steve, without doubt, there are many older classic era classic courses that would be perfect for hosting an exciting and fun to attend or watch on TV women's tour event, of course de to shorter distances.  Having the women stop for an event in Milwaukee was one of the first things that entered my mind upon being hosted recently at Blue Mound.  The length is perfect and the classic Raynor features are so dramatic that I think just watching it on TV would entice many newcomers and otherwise oblivious to golf course architecture fans to discover things they hadn't really understood before.  It would be a real eyeopener.  

[Steve Lang]

 

Well, it rained Sunday night, about 1.3 inches worth and agin today on and off, but its since passed and things look great for the weekend.  The TPC when wet is not fun.  

I have one bet that says the ladies don't crack par!

[Carlyle Rood]

The LPGA Tour will not be coming to Atlanta Country Club.  ACC used to host the Atlanta Classic (later BellSouth Classic), and hosted the inaugural Players Championship in 1974.  It has also hosted two USGA events: U.S. Senior and U.S. Women's Amateur.

About six years ago the membership was polled.  They were asked whether they would approve/disapprove of hosting (a) another PGA event, (b) a Senior PGA [now Champions] event, or (c) an LPGA event.  The latter two choices garnered almost no enthusiasm.  The former was far from unanimous.

I don't think people appreciate how much trouble it is to host a PGA event.  It was almost a half dozen years after the tournament left before many of us started to miss it.  You have to make all kinds of concessions to ensure the course will be in immaculate shape for the tournament.  The course also endures a tremendous amount of punishment from spectators--particularly if it rains.

And I want to make one point about course difficulty.  The difficulty of the course is usually arbitrary.  The PGA Tour can make a course as difficult or as easy as they intend.  The course setup for the Players Championship at Atlanta Country Club was entirely different than for the BellSouth Classic, and the winning scores reflected that.  The only genuinely spontaneous factor affecting course difficulty is the time permitted for the course to green up.  If the rough has time to grow in, then scores often escalate.

C

[Eric Pevoto]

Steve,

The two finishing holes should be fun to watch.  How long do you think they'll play the 17th?  If I remember correctly, that 17th green is very shallow.  

Forced carry+shallow green+anything more than an 8 iron=trouble on the LPGA  

[Steve Lang]

 Eric,

I don't think the distance will be a great issue, like 350-370.. due to the dogleg type approach over The Devil's Bathtub" pond there.   The men pros hit fairway woods or long irons to lay up on the mounded fairway for 110-160 yd approaches.. I assume the ladies will be drivers and some fairway woods and few irons..

I have hit everything from a 2 iron to a 8 iron approch at #17.. and still made par, however, more often than not by scrambling.  

The toughest pin placements are mid to far right, maximum carry over the water and green only about 15 paces to 10 paces deep. So yes, ya got to spin it and control it well or play to the safer midleft side. Launch it into the rear bunker or grassy swale and the water is still in play.  

Also, unfortunately, the old crooked tree on the back left of that green got blown over in a storm a couple of summers ago and there's only a benign trap there now.. Used to look evil on that back left pin location approach.

I expect to see many fall short and then bail out long as nerves pick up

[Andy Hodson]

Steve

When are you going? If I can get out of my preparations for The Spirit, I'd like to meet up for a cool one and some golf watching.

BTW, even though it will, no doubt, not show up in the Chronicle, the Houston area is hosting some really good golf in the next month.

This week....the LPGA's best at the TPC

Next week...some of the world's best amateurs at Whispering Pines

Early November...the PGA's best at Champions

Not bad stuff coming up, huh?

[Steve Lang]

Hod,

Glad to hear from you, how's the newest family member doing?

Just last night I saw an add for The Spirit at Whispering Pines and thought much the same.  Ms Sheila and I were thinking of a round at Huntsville Ravens Nest? or  Waterwood National and then coming around the lake to watch the amatuers..

Ms Sheila is working in "scoring central" and I have a pass for the week and will be there as much as possible.  I suggest we watch some on any day and then tee it up ourselves at the Player, I'd love to see you take it down..

I really enjoyed the last time the big boys were at Champions and won't miss it this year.. maybe the last time there?

I love this time of year, golf without excessive sweating!  Glad that colf front brought things down into the 80's..

Annilka said she loved the course so maybe she'll light it up.

[Steve Lang]

 

These girls can play!  They did 36 today, an 8 hour day at the office.

The sound of the ball striking is impressive for majority.

They put it in most of the right places..

Watching Beth Daniel stripe a high iron shot to the 187yd #8 par three's back pin-right was way cool  

Watching Se-Ri shooting at the pins on #17 & 18, 6 & 9 was inspiring.

Watching and hearing compression as Sophie gets it over the hill on #9, an impressive 290 yds. with wet conditions.

Best of all, watching Annika crush it high and long over the dogleg on #1 tee shot to start last 9, carrying high over the tall pines just like some of the big boys used to!

Watching Se-Ri and Annika going head to head, taking birdies on #1, 2 & 3.  Pure entertainment.

Watching the 10 year olds watching the LPGA stars, priceless.

[A_Clay_Man]

Steve- Excited to read your passion about the woodlands.
As for the ladies, I wouldn't mind seeing them(lpga) forget about going low so much and put'em on some real old classics,as Dick says, But i'd also like to make'em get down and dirty ala Prarie Dunes and the Kohler courses at the 98' open. They shouldn't have to wait for the opens to play these brutal gems. Hell, they(women) are so techincally proficient the shot making is almost a given. But that seems to translate into the missing the thrill of recovery ?

Speaking of the thrill of recovery...

I'd still like to see a ladies flight at Augusta in April. And while I'm dreaming they should have the placed trimmed to a bikini wax canvas.

[Eric Pevoto]

Steve,

Nice report.  Seeing the highlights on golf channel, it looked like conditions were pretty soft.  

A carry over the dogleg at #1?  I remember seeing Greg Norman do the same in about 1986-87 and being amazed by it.  Impressive.  

That same year, Davis Love put on an impromptu "show" at the range.  He drew a crowd (including tour players) as he repeatedly flew balls into the pines at the end of the range.

It's a great time of year for golf in the Woodlands.  

[Steve Lang]

 

Adam,  

You capture my point as I had started this thread, before morphing its title.. I guess you have to have the sponsors and club support to get tourneys back on the classics.  If there's the opportunity and folks could make it happen, it'd be great to see the classic venues make a comeback, without entering an "altered" state.  

While its not all perfection, saw some good wedge-short game play from Se-Ri, Karrie, Lorena, Rosie and Rachel along the way.  One friend i was talking to as we watched annika taking a drop on edge of #9 fairway (~280 drive) told me about annika recovering from just left of there in the pine trees on #9 in the first round, going through a very small opening to the green, saving par.

As Hod mentioned in earlier post, its great to see the range of quality golf being played here. Pro and AM, ladies, men, and seniors.. and better yet to be able to take it in!  Can't wait for Tour Championship next.

Eric,
Yes she did, just after Se-Ri barely got thru the top of those trees..

Got to go, as things start drying out today in the sun it should get interesting!