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Ira Fishman

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Volcano Holes
« on: January 12, 2017, 06:24:00 PM »
I am new, but I searched for an old thread about Ross Volcano Par 3s because I remember playing Bedford Springs 40 something years ago and both loving and hating the hole. It was great to learn that the post-bankruptcy re-opening/restoration kept the hole alive.  The original thread educated me that Ross and a couple of other ODGs used the Volcano Hole.  My questions:


(a) are there any modern versions of the hole?


(b) should it be a more common design feature?
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Jonathan Sirois

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 11:06:15 PM »
Another volcano hole worth checking out is the fifteenth at the CountryClub of New Bedford (North Dartmouth, MA; Park Jr., 1902/Ross, 1924). Here's a peek: http://www.countryclubofnewbedford.com/hole-15


To answer your questions, (a) I don't know of any modern versions, but (b) I would certainly advocate for more.


I think the 15th at CCNB is quite brilliant. At a maximum length of only 133 yards, this late-round one-shotter doesn't disappoint. Too short with your approach and the obvious roll back is all but certain. Too deep and you're left with a slightly uphill pitch to a front-to-back sloped green --- also tough. Left features a deep and long green side bunker and right leaves you with a pitch from well below the surface of the green.


What's more, the internal contours of the green are perfect. If you decide to play through the opening, between the two front bunkers (the rightmost one is actually quite a few paces from the front of the green), you will land on the section of the green that is most severely slanted from back to front. Too much spin with that PW can very likely spin you off the front. If you are willing to play over the right bunker, you will be playing to a flatter section that, if anything, directs the ball towards the center of the green.


I never tire of playing this hole near the end of a well-played match. Birdies are as common as double bogeys, and skins almost always exchange hands.


I'd also be interested in hearing about more modern examples. Thanks for posting.


- Jon




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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 11:35:41 PM »
#4 @ Bedford Springs... courtesy of the Bausch Collection


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Matthew Petersen

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 12:55:10 AM »
Didn't Art Hills build a short par 4 version of a volcano hole at Chicago Highlands? I seem to remember something about it in a magazine.
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jeffwarne

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2017, 01:01:25 AM »
The first one I saw (or recognized) was Greg Norman's on the Great White at Doral.


The best I've seen is #4 at Shennecosset
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David Davis

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2017, 04:01:34 AM »


There is an absolutely beautiful one at Roaring Gap. An awesome little par 3, number 6!
















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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2017, 04:07:07 AM »
Can someone give me the definition of a Volcano Hole? Is it merely a green placed on top of a natural hill / mound with fall-offs on all sides? Is the "all sides" the key to the concept.


Gleneagles Kings 5th hole is one of the best. County Sligo 4th could be considered another perhaps although a lot more subtle.
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Thomas Dai

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 04:13:55 AM »
The 5th on the Kings course at Gleneagles is frequently described at one.

Definition is important - 2nd at Dornoch, 5th at Saunton East - noticeably raised with roll-off in all sides?

Now a proper volcano like hole, ie up and up and up with a crater in the middle.....well the 5th at Painswick would seem to fit that bill.

A nice type of hole on an occasional basis if of the correct length. Potentially a pain in the neck though, for the likes of beginners/novices and for those unable to hit the ball high enough to reach the green and stop the ball on the putting surface.

Atb




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Sean_A

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2017, 04:51:49 AM »
I am struggling to think of a modern volcano that I know. One of the very best is Swinley's 17th, partly because its somewhat disguised as a volcano and extremely attractive. 


There is a great version at LuLu near Philly.


Ciao 
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Mike Feeney

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2017, 07:00:44 AM »
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2017, 09:21:49 AM »
Other notable awesome Ross Volcano holes.  I'll have to see if I have pictures stashed away, but others should post if the have them.


Hole 4 at Shennecossett in Groton, CT
Hole 9 at Charles River in Newton, MA




Side note:  David, I don't know if I would categorize 6 at Roaring Gap a volcano.
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Pat Alpaugh

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2017, 10:21:54 AM »
The 6th hole at the Country Club of Buffalo is the best example of a "volcano" hole I've ever seen;

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Tim Fitz

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2017, 01:19:26 PM »
I don't know if it counts as a Volcano hole, but #8 at Glen Oak (Glen Ellyn, IL; Tom Bendelow) is my favorite hole on the course.  Rather than a do or die par 3, this hole is a short (292 from the member tees) par 4.  Because the fairway runs out short of the hill to the green, it forces you to properly select a club to hit off the tee so that you are well positioned to hold the green with your second shot.  If memory serves me well, the green slopes from back to front, so a shot that comes in with too much spin may pull off the front of the green, while there is OB behind the green, penalizing a shot that comes in too hot.

I can't seem to post an image, but Glen Oak's website (https://www.glenoakcountryclub.org/club/scripts/section/section.asp?NS=HP) has a course tour with pictures.  There isn't much talk of Glen Oak on GCA, but this is an interesting hole.
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Josh Bills

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2017, 02:55:14 PM »
I always thought P.B. Dye's 3rd hole at Urbana CC in Ohio was volcano like as there is nowhere to miss on this domed green and everything rolls down a good way if you do miss.  I think the orientation of the green at an angle on this uphill hole makes it very difficult.  The nice part is you can put from anywhere around the green and that's my usual preference for a miss. 


A zoomed in view from the tee



From behind the green



From just in front
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J_ Crisham

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 03:01:17 PM »
Cedar Rapids CC- # 14? Perhaps the best Ross volcano I have seen. #9 at Charles River is an honorable mention. Among moderns the 9th at Chicago Highlands is fun as well.
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David Davis

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 03:26:19 PM »
Quote from: Mark McKeever on January 13, 2017, 09:21:49 AM
Side note:  David, I don't know if I would categorize 6 at Roaring Gap a volcano.


Mark,


You of course are free to have your own opinion but you will have a rather tough and uphill battle trying to convince the Donald Ross Society of your belief that one of their best examples of a prototypical Ross Volcano green you would not categorize as such.


http://www.rosssociety.org/resources/Documents/Charlotte%202015/RoaringGapClub_DRS.pdf


Please check the comment in the right column on the first page. Very curious to hear how that discussion pans out.


 ;) 
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Dunlop_White

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2017, 06:05:02 PM »
Did Ross get the idea from Gleneagles? I'm unsure if Ross spent time at Gleneagles? Brad Klein or Chris Buie may know?



Now this is a Volcano Hole.


Maybe Hole No. 2 at Royal Dornoch inspired his use of Volcano-type landforms for green sites?





Early on, Ross's Belleair course had two volcano greens looking just like this….



Unbelievable!


Besides Roaring Gap, Bald Peak Colony's Battleship Hole is another great example.








CC of Buffalo has already been mentioned. Here's their Pulpit Hole ….





Misquamicut in RI has one….





Minor ones can be found at Memphis and Mimosa….










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Evan Fleisher

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2017, 08:19:32 PM »
How about the 14th hole at Hawthorne Valley Country Club in Solon, OH.  From the blue tees it plays 207 yards with steep fall-offs left right and front and a large bunker flanking the green around its right side.





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Alex Miller

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2017, 08:21:18 PM »
Rustic's short 8th as well. (Fun fact, I played this day but didn't even realize it when I stumbled upon this forum member's photo)


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Cliff Hamm

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2017, 08:40:16 PM »
Quote from: David Davis on January 13, 2017, 03:26:19 PM
Quote from: Mark McKeever on January 13, 2017, 09:21:49 AM
Side note:  David, I don't know if I would categorize 6 at Roaring Gap a volcano.


Mark,


You of course are free to have your own opinion but you will have a rather tough and uphill battle trying to convince the Donald Ross Society of your belief that one of their best examples of a prototypical Ross Volcano green you would not categorize as such.


http://www.rosssociety.org/resources/Documents/Charlotte%202015/RoaringGapClub_DRS.pdf


Please check the comment in the right column on the first page. Very curious to hear how that discussion pans out.


 ;)


I've always thought a volcano hole should be uphill, above the tee.  Shennecosssett 4 being the best example I know of.


If 6 at Roaring Gap qualifies, than 7 at Lawsonia is an even better example...
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Sven Nilsen

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2017, 10:11:03 PM »
Quote from: Dunlop_White on January 13, 2017, 06:05:02 PM
Did Ross get the idea from Gleneagles? I'm unsure if Ross spent time at Gleneagles? Brad Klein or Chris Buie may know?


Dunlop:


There's a 1910 article discussing his recent visit to the UK.  Gleneagles isn't noted as one of the courses he visited.


That doesn't mean Ross wasn't familiar with Gleneagles, just that on his first major visit to the UK as an architect he didn't go there.


Sven
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Tim Martin

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 08:19:57 AM »
You have two of the best within about 15 miles of one another. The 4th hole at Shennecossett("Anthill") and number 8 at Misquamicut which Dunlop provided a picture of. I have to agree with Jeff Warne that Shenny's version is the best I have seen.

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Carl Johnson

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2017, 10:16:43 AM »
This is not what we're talking about?  18 true volcano holes.  http://www.volcanogolfshop.com/
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JBovay

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2017, 10:24:50 AM »
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Matt Bielawa

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Re: Volcano Holes
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2017, 10:30:15 AM »
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