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James Bennett

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2017, 02:16:28 AM »
Re Trophy Name

"The Ashes" perhaps? 
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2017, 03:08:25 AM »

I like the idea of playing for a GCA Quaich.Let the winner beware, they would be charged with bringing it out every time more than 4 past or present members were playing and providing a wee nip on the first tee.  It needn’t be that financially onerous as these occasions are not that often, but it may be a couple of years before someone else wins it off them!
I also think there’s merit in the Swinley Forrest approach.
“Oh the 2014 knockout is doing fine, they ‘ve reached the semi finals. But we won’t start the 2016 until last year’s gets past the first round….”





Let's make GCA grate again!

James Boon

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2017, 03:29:39 AM »
Mark,

Great idea! I'm sure we can all see plenty of hurdles for this, but its certainly worth a go so thanks for organising!

Perhaps we should leave the choice of venue to the particpants discretion, but suggest a few ways to do it such as the previously mentioned neutral venue half way between the two. For instance if say I managed to get past the regional rounds and drew Jon Wiggett I may be happy to make a trip to the Highlands to see my parents or if I drew Chappers I may be able to make it a long weekend with Mrs B on the Kent coast?

As you know I'm in the Midlands...

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Mark Chaplin

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2017, 05:10:37 AM »
I'm sure I've said before but I was playing with the pro and secretary and Swinley, we were talking about the competive nature of the club and they admitted the following weekend saw the final of the summer knockout. Problem was it was the summer TWO years previous.


This is something I'd be up for next year once the B&B is in the past, for now I struggle to leave home 15 minutes before my tee time a mile away!
Cave Nil Vino

Adam Lawrence

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2017, 06:14:01 AM »
Re Trophy Name

"The Ashes" perhaps?


It can hardly be the Ashes without the convicts...
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

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Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Giles Payne

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2017, 09:35:22 AM »
I'm in - Buckinghamshire

Niall C

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2017, 10:32:34 AM »
Mark
 
A few random thoughts;
 
Regional heats – picking up on what you and others have said, think this is a good idea for early rounds. For one thing it will hopefully reduce the possibility of a backlog in the later stages.


9 Hole Knockout – Tom D had a great format at his Renaissance Cup a few years ago which was matches played over 9 holes with the winners then swapping with the losers in either the group in front or behind. So if you have a number of matches going out at the same time, even as fourballs, then you could get through two rounds in one day. Of course, for this to work you need to get everyone together which brings me to my next point…….


Group Gatherings – use meetings like the Goswick get together to get the early matches played as above.


Neutral Venues – another top idea from Tom D. I’d add the caveat that the greenfee should be under £50 (perhaps higher for the SE ?) with the combatants to report back, hopefully with pictures.


Depending on how well it goes I’d suggest maybe some refinements for next year;


Foursomes – make it a foursomes comp. Not enough opportunities to play foursomes in my experience, and what better way to enjoy and analyse a course than by playing from a part of the course you probably wouldn’t be playing from otherwise.


Stymies – yes, let’s go old school. Let’s try a GCA experiment and see how much quicker the game is if you can’t mark your ball on the green.
 
Tony


I like the idea of the trophy being a quaich. Not sure about the GCA Quaich mind you. Given how many North Berwick members there now are on GCA why not call it the Tantallon Quaich ?
 
Niall (Glasgow)

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2017, 10:44:13 AM »
Mark
 
A few random thoughts;
 
Regional heats – picking up on what you and others have said, think this is a good idea for early rounds. For one thing it will hopefully reduce the possibility of a backlog in the later stages.
I think we're pretty much settled on this.
Quote


9 Hole Knockout – Tom D had a great format at his Renaissance Cup a few years ago which was matches played over 9 holes with the winners then swapping with the losers in either the group in front or behind. So if you have a number of matches going out at the same time, even as fourballs, then you could get through two rounds in one day. Of course, for this to work you need to get everyone together which brings me to my next point…….


Group Gatherings – use meetings like the Goswick get together to get the early matches played as above.
These two require four players present who are in the same bracket.  I'm going to stick with 18 holes but wholeheartedly support the idea that some rounds may be played at GRoup Gatherings.  Indeed, I may fix the first round draw to give some added competitive edge to some of the groupings at Goswick!
Quote


Neutral Venues – another top idea from Tom D. I’d add the caveat that the greenfee should be under £50 (perhaps higher for the SE ?) with the combatants to report back, hopefully with pictures.
I do think this is a really good idea.  I don't want to be too prescriptive but participants will be encouraged to use neutral venues and provide photos and some narrative both of the course played and the way the match went.
Quote


Depending on how well it goes I’d suggest maybe some refinements for next year;


Foursomes – make it a foursomes comp. Not enough opportunities to play foursomes in my experience, and what better way to enjoy and analyse a course than by playing from a part of the course you probably wouldn’t be playing from otherwise.
The problem I see with this is that it requires getting four people from this board in the same place at the same time for every match.  Is supect that makes getting matches played more than twice as difficult!
Quote


Stymies – yes, let’s go old school. Let’s try a GCA experiment and see how much quicker the game is if you can’t mark your ball on the green.
 
Tony


I like the idea of the trophy being a quaich. Not sure about the GCA Quaich mind you. Given how many North Berwick members there now are on GCA why not call it the Tantallon Quaich ?
 
Niall (Glasgow)
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Niall C

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2017, 10:57:53 AM »
Well, at least you didn't trash my stymie idea  ;D


Niall

Ian Galbraith

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2017, 11:38:51 AM »
Happy to join in with this schedule allowing.


Another forum I frequent tried this and it failed for the geography reasons mentioned above. They did manage an alternative which was to hold a regional meet (stableford) with the top two from each of four regions travelling to a common course to play out a match play quarter, semi and final over the one weekend. The modest entry fees payed by all paid for the green fees of the finalists.


Maybe as well as using meets to get some matchplay ties done we could fix the draw a little if there are some courses folks would be willing to travel to. e.g. Sillouth has been on my hit list for a while so I'd be happy to take the trouble to drive there to play, but less willing to travel that time/distance for some other venues.


cheers
Ian
PS I'm in Edinburgh/North Berwick
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 11:43:38 AM by Ian Galbraith »

Tom Kelly

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2017, 12:58:26 PM »
Sounds like an interesting idea and although I would like to join in, given my dubious handicap (at times), time and money I will have to give it a pass this time. I would be interested to get involved in the future though.

Thomas Dai

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2017, 01:06:13 PM »
Nice idea. I wish it every success. Participation by moi is unlikely due to timely travel/logistics but if there were to be a UK get-together incorporately such an event I'd be keen to be involved.
Atb

Philip Gawith

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2017, 03:09:49 PM »
Great idea Mark - I would like to join in principle. I am based in London.


An alternative format would be round robin where you get, say,  1 point for playing a match, two for half, three if you win, and then work out at the end of the year who has the most points. This format would reward those who are well organised and play most matches.


Philip





Paul Dolton

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2017, 03:47:23 PM »

Id be interested.
Frilford , Oxfordshire

Paul Dolton

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2017, 04:08:11 PM »
Any interest in a couple of regional meets with the top 4 or 8 or 16 etc going forward to the matchplay rounds?

Marc Haring

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2017, 05:10:24 AM »
I've been conversing with you nutters for 13 years now without actually ever playing with you so sounds like a perfect opportunity to prove how bad I really am. Count me in.


Bath area.

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2017, 12:04:50 PM »
Pleased to see some interest in this.  I'll give it until early next week then arrange the draw. 


We currently have 20, one in the Highlands, two in Fife, one in Glasgow, three Edinburgh/East Lothian, one Newcastle, one Stockport, four in the Midlands, three in Oxfordshire/Bucks, three Greater London and one in Bath.  It may well be the final before South plays North!

Still open to ideas for a name.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 12:26:20 PM by Mark Pearce »
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

John Chilver-Stainer

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2017, 03:26:45 PM »

Mark,


Maybe a "Squash Ladder" would be more suitable than a knockout competition.


A ladder system means that the players can continue challenging each other, rather than having no more competition once one is knocked out.


Maybe even regional ladders, with the leaders of each ladder meeting for a final showdown at the end of the year.

http://www.squash-ladder.com/help.asp#MyDashboard

Thomas Dai

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2017, 03:39:19 PM »
Pleased to see some interest in this.  I'll give it until early next week then arrange the draw. 
We currently have 20, one in the Highlands, two in Fife, one in Glasgow, three Edinburgh/East Lothian, one Newcastle, one Stockport, four in the Midlands, three in Oxfordshire/Bucks, three Greater London and one in Bath.  It may well be the final before South plays North!
Still open to ideas for a name.


Not me this year but.....
Moving on a slight tangent how about an annual UK GCA get-together at a mutually convenient location (even a posters home club) with other interesting courses nearby, to include a North vrs South match, particularly at an appropriate time of year for a suitable good-price deal. And at a time of year away from usual Buda dates.


Perhaps Goswick on 21st Jan could be a place to start:)!?


Atb

Rich Goodale

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2017, 12:31:40 PM »
Great idea, Mark, and I'm in, although my participation would have to be in the early May-early October window.


I would recommend that at least the first round be a self-organising process, i.e. letting any pair choosing a venue and a date.  Procrastinators will have to travel far and/or find a local non-GCA.com afficionado.  Win /in if we increase the quality of the gene pool on GCA.


Slainte


Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2017, 12:23:43 PM »
Stick me on the list. Need every excuse I can get for a decent game.

I'm in Fleet, Hampshire, though Uttoxeter shall continue to be a second home for a further year.
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Ben Stephens

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2017, 01:15:00 PM »
Mark,


Please add me in - possibly a Midlands round robin.


How much would the entry fee be? it could be used to buy a trophy


Cheers
Ben

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2017, 03:37:04 PM »
I like Tony's idea of a quaich as the trophy, to be brought by the winner to any GCA event they attend and used in the traditional manner at said events.  Looks like £50-£60 is more than enough for a decent pewter quaich and I'd imagine that £3 per person should be plenty for the quaich and some engraving.  Any other ideas, trophy wise?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2017, 06:31:14 PM »
We have done that in Germany for a couple of seasons, I believe almost 10 in all. It was great fun, but you need about 80-120 competitors to make regionality work. When we dropped down to 50 or so, the competition died because logistics got too complicated for too many competitors. We tried various systems and the one that worked best (IMHO) went like that:

About 10 regions with about 2-3 groups in each region and 3-4 players in each group. In those groups everyone would play each other and the winner would advance. This meant that everyone had at least 2-3 matches, which made the entry fee worthwile. It was often great fun to stage "group days", where two matches would be played, so it was a mini get-together of four players. Sometimes only the winner of a group would advance, sometimes even the first two, when we had larger groups.

Anyway, we were looking to come out of the group stage with 32 players. After the group stage you would typically have 2-4 group winners from the same region and they would play each other, which left 16 players. The next round was the first, where you have to seriously travel for one match, but it was also the last. This is because the final 8 would be decided on one week-end in one central location with green fees and parts of the hotel costs paid for by the entry fees.

Oftentimes one or two of those finalists would get sick or have other duties, but it was never a problem to nominate a loser from the last knockout stage (and often a bit of a fight who could go to the finals).

Entry fee was about 10-20 quid and you get a couple of guaranteed group matches for that, which was always more than worth it in my mind.

So, in short: 100 players, group stage, entry fee and the final 8 played centrally on a week-end. There was typically a 4-6 week window for each round and the finals in September or so.

It's a very demanding system when you are just starting up. But it shows that the logistics problem can be solved.

Ulrich
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 06:35:04 PM by Ulrich Mayring »
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Duncan Cheslett

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Re: UK GCAers - any interest in a knockout comp?
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2017, 04:35:57 AM »


We currently have 20, one in the Highlands, two in Fife, one in Glasgow, three Edinburgh/East Lothian, one Newcastle, one Stockport, four in the Midlands, three in Oxfordshire/Bucks, three Greater London and one in Bath. 


Actually, the spread is not too wide. If we put Stockport in the Midlands (it is Cheshire, after all!) and Newcastle in the Lothians the only "outliers" are Marc in Bath and Jon in the Arctic Circle!