Rules Question | Bunker edition

[Brent Belote]

Etiquette aside....

Say on the first hole, my ball is on the green and marked awaiting to be putted.  Could I go into the greenside bunker and take a few practice swings to get the feel for firmness and texture of sand?  My ball is not in bunker so I'm not breaking that rule and it seems like it would be on par (see what I did there) with all the pros who feel the sand or touch sand after they have hit a shot out of a bunker.

Again, this is not a practice I would ever do but am more curious on what the rule book would say.

[Pete_Pittock]

The preface -etiquette aside - should provide the answer.

As long as they are practice swings, not practice strokes (which involve a ball), you shouldn't get penalized unless someone invokes undue delay.  Simplify things by practicing in a bunker before the round. The same answer applies to a waste area.


What would be the dynamics in your group afterwards?

[Ed Brzezowski]

I think the only issues are Undue Delay and Caring for the Course.

[jim_lewis]

So, what if you putt the ball off the green into the bunker you have just been taking practice swings in? About a different green side bunker? If you have never putted into a hazard, you can ignore the question.

[archie_struthers]

 


What's  the difference between swinging in the bunker or in the heavy grass , or fairway?  Don't see any reason it's not legal. 


Undue delay or local rules notwithstanding

[John Kavanaugh]

Why not just go down to some half ass modern marvel like Pinehurst #2 or Tara Iti where the designers and management don't have the balls or imagination to distinguish where waste areas end and bunkers begin. Practice swing at your hearts content.


I recently played #2 with some bearded pirate that took practice swing after practice swing in obvious green side bunkers just because the starter said it was within the rules. Argh another pargh, sorry I didn't say great shot.

[Jim Adkisson]

As is usual in my experience, most rules questions are easily answered if you just actually read the rules...

Start Quote:

7-2. During Round

A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole.

Between the play of two holes a player must not make a practice stroke, except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:
a. the putting green of the hole last played,
b. any practice putting green, or
c. the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round,

provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7).

End of Quote

so if your ball is on the green, you cannot practice anywhere...period...you are in the middle of playing a hole...
After you've putted out and are between holes, you may practice {without undue delay} provided you are not practicing from a hazard...

[Jim Adkisson]

The preface -etiquette aside - should provide the answer.

You will never get an answer from the  USGA unless it actually happens. But, as long as they are practice swings, not practice strokes (which involve a ball), you shouldn't get penalized unless someone invokes undue delay.  Simplify things by practicing in a bunker before the round. The same answer applies to a waste area.


What would be the dynamics in your group afterwards?

Dammit Pete, I should have looked at who had posted and re-read your post twice before typing once...an interesting conundrum...as these are not practice strokes, but practice swings without a ball, they are not covered by 7...As always my hat is doffed to you...

[jeffwarne]

As is usual in my experience, most rules questions are easily answered if you just actually read the rules...

Start Quote:

7-2. During Round

A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole.

Between the play of two holes a player must not make a practice stroke, except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:
a. the putting green of the hole last played,
b. any practice putting green, or
c. the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round,

provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7).

End of Quote

so if your ball is on the green, you cannot practice anywhere...period...you are in the middle of playing a hole...
After you've putted out and are between holes, you may practice {without undue delay} provided you are not practicing from a hazard...

Jim,
The prohibited "practice stroke" you refer to involves a ball.
A practice "swing"(no ball) is perfectly legal when playing a hole.
In between holes they are referring to using an actual ball for options a,b, and c.


The question was can a player make a practice "swing" (without a ball) in a bunker when his ball is on the green.


woops...Jim was typing faster than I was...

[John Kavanaugh]

I could only pray that the match goes to extra holes and the player is disqualified for testing conditions in a hazard. Quite simply the game needs a local rule preventing practice swings that disturb any playing surface. Any waste of space that would take a practice swing in a bunker must also take unnecessary practice divots in the fairway. These people need to go.

[Sean_A]

I have seen guys walk into fairway bunkers when their ball is further down the fairway...without a club or ball and just stand in the sand air swinging.  I don't think there is any rule against that.


Ciao

[Carl Nichols]

Jeff--


Jim recognized the difference in his second post.


I didn't realize that in a stroke play tournament you can practice chipping and putting between holes; given how often it happens in, for example, the Ryder Cup, I assumed it wasn't allowed in stroke-play events.  Does this never happen on tour because it's usually considered "undue delay"? 

[MClutterbuck]

Think about this scenario before you all go to the Rules Book... your ball is on the green, you take a practice swing in the bunker, and sand flys out and onto the green in your line of play...

[Sean_A]

Jeff--


Jim recognized the difference in his second post.


I didn't realize that in a stroke play tournament you can practice chipping and putting between holes; given how often it happens in, for example, the Ryder Cup, I assumed it wasn't allowed in stroke-play events.  Does this never happen on tour because it's usually considered "undue delay"?

Carl


I believe you can practice shots in matchplay once the hole is complete....not in medal.


Ciao

[Padraig Dooley]

Jeff--


Jim recognized the difference in his second post.


I didn't realize that in a stroke play tournament you can practice chipping and putting between holes; given how often it happens in, for example, the Ryder Cup, I assumed it wasn't allowed in stroke-play events.  Does this never happen on tour because it's usually considered "undue delay"?

Carl


I believe you can practice shots in matchplay once the hole is complete....not in medal.


Ciao

Sean

You can practice on or near the green (except in a bunker) of the hole just played in medal and matchplay, the professional tours have a condition of competition which prohibits this. The rules of golf do not.

[Alex Miller]

Think about this scenario before you all go to the Rules Book... your ball is on the green, you take a practice swing in the bunker, and sand flys out and onto the green in your line of play...

Yeah but loose impediments get blown into my line of play while on the green all the time. Often in the fall it's leaves but sand qualifies and I can wipe/pick it away. What's the issue?

[MClutterbuck]

Think about this scenario before you all go to the Rules Book... your ball is on the green, you take a practice swing in the bunker, and sand flys out and onto the green in your line of play...

Yeah but loose impediments get blown into my line of play while on the green all the time. Often in the fall it's leaves but sand qualifies and I can wipe/pick it away. What's the issue?

But loose impediments that are blown into your line of play are not caused by your actions. You are not allowed to alter your line of play except for lifting a ball pitch mark or REMOVE loose impediments. What if the player leaves these "new" loose impediments on his line past the hole for his first putt? I need to look into this further when I have time but I believe we start getting into intent matters.


My preliminary read is that there is no penalty for a practice swing in a bunker as long as the ball is not in the bunker or another bunker, and as long as you donīt then put into the bunker.


As a committee member in my club I would quickly look at undue delay (Rule 6-7) and conditioning of the bunker after the player leaves the hole (Rule 33-7). I would also ask him not to repeat this as a matter of etiquette and course care.

[JLahrman]

What if it's a loose impediment that you want? Maybe you've got a downhill putt on a very fast green, and you take some practice swings from a bunker that pile up some sand behind the hole that could slow your ball down once it passes the hole?

Could you then remove that sand before you putt back up to the hole?

Granted, that would take a damn accurate practice swing, but since we're just hypothesizing here...

[Jon Wiggett]

I wonder what the rule would be if your ball is in a bunker and you go into another bunker to take practice swings which include testing the sand? From an etiquette point of view I think practice swings in a bunker with the pure intention of testing the condition of the hazard would be pretty much frowned on.


Jon

[Bill_McBride]

I wonder what the rule would be if your ball is in a bunker and you go into another bunker to take practice swings which include testing the sand? From an etiquette point of view I think practice swings in a bunker with the pure intention of testing the condition of the hazard would be pretty much frowned on.


Jon

If you're just wiggling your feet around to get a feeling for the condition of the sand, you can do that in the bunker you're about to play from as you take your stance. 

[Jon Wiggett]

I wonder what the rule would be if your ball is in a bunker and you go into another bunker to take practice swings which include testing the sand? From an etiquette point of view I think practice swings in a bunker with the pure intention of testing the condition of the hazard would be pretty much frowned on.


Jon

If you're just wiggling your feet around to get a feeling for the condition of the sand, you can do that in the bunker you're about to play from as you take your stance.

Bill,


that is something you are doing to take your stance which is different to going in and whacking sand out. To be honest I have never come across anyone who thought doing such a thing might be appropriate.


Jon

[MClutterbuck]

I wonder what the rule would be if your ball is in a bunker and you go into another bunker to take practice swings which include testing the sand? From an etiquette point of view I think practice swings in a bunker with the pure intention of testing the condition of the hazard would be pretty much frowned on.


Jon

2 stroke penalty under Rule 13-4.


. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions
Except as provided in the Rules[/b], before making a stroke[/b] at a ball that is in a hazard[/b] (whether a bunker[/b] or a water hazard[/b]) or that, having been lifted from a hazard[/b], may be dropped or placed in the hazard[/b], the player must not:
a.
Test the condition of the hazard[/b] or any similar hazard[/b];
b.
Touch the ground in the hazard[/b] or water in the water hazard[/b] with his hand or a club; or
c.
Touch or move a loose impediment[/b] lying in or touching the hazard[/b][/font][/size]

[Ed Brzezowski]

I wonder what the rule would be if your ball is in a bunker and you go into another bunker to take practice swings which include testing the sand? From an etiquette point of view I think practice swings in a bunker with the pure intention of testing the condition of the hazard would be pretty much frowned on.


Jon

13-4 says its a no no.

[MClutterbuck]

I wonder what the rule would be if your ball is in a bunker and you go into another bunker to take practice swings which include testing the sand? From an etiquette point of view I think practice swings in a bunker with the pure intention of testing the condition of the hazard would be pretty much frowned on.


Jon

If you're just wiggling your feet around to get a feeling for the condition of the sand, you can do that in the bunker you're about to play from as you take your stance.

Bill, I do not agree. If you are testing the sand, it is a penalty. Taking a stance is a different matter. Of course, you can not build a stance either.

[Ed Brzezowski]

I wonder what the rule would be if your ball is in a bunker and you go into another bunker to take practice swings which include testing the sand? From an etiquette point of view I think practice swings in a bunker with the pure intention of testing the condition of the hazard would be pretty much frowned on.


Jon

If you're just wiggling your feet around to get a feeling for the condition of the sand, you can do that in the bunker you're about to play from as you take your stance.

Bill, I do not agree. If you are testing the sand, it is a penalty. Taking a stance is a different matter. Of course, you can not build a stance either.

not fighting but could you please give me an idea why it's a penalty?