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Ran Morrissett

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Grade your state/county
« on: December 11, 2016, 04:41:23 AM »
The question is how much better or worse is your state's golf offering over the past 17 years? Grade your state in North America or Australia, region in the UK, etc.

As a point of reference, use 1999 which is when GolfClubAtlas went live.

Award an overall grade: A+, A, A-, down to F. Most importantly, substantiate that rating.

For example, here is my take on North Carolina. The important Golden Age works that I can think of are substantially improved. These are well-known (No.2, Old Town, Mid Pines, Roaring Gap, Charlotte CC, Biltmore Forest, Wilmington Municipal Course, and Pine Needles where on-going work is happening over the winter). The significant modern courses including Wade Hampton (drainage), Grandfather Mountain, and most recently Quail Hollow and CCNC have all been enhanced as well. 

In terms of new course construction, we aren't exactly Oregon and we are only doing so-so as a state.  Dormie, Diamond Creek, and Forest Creek’s second course spring to mind in terms of high quality new construction but that's about it.

For some, affordable golf is a crucial component. Our state show pony is the aforementioned Municipal Course in Wilmington, which most recently benefited by work from John Fought. Tobacco Road opened prior to 1999 fyi, so technically, it doesn't count. Dormie typically offers very enticing rates over the next few winter months, so that's a consideration.

Overall, given the superlative restoration work by several of today's leading architects, I would grade the Tar Heel state a B+. If/when Pinehurst No. 4 goes according to plan, I would likely bump that up to an A-. Bottom line: Great work on the best courses has occurred here. Yes, indifferent golf exists around much of the state but the places that could shine, now shine and that sets the stage for future good work.

For now, North Carolina: B+

So ...what say you? I am fascinated to see what should be a huge range of responses.

Best,
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 04:51:35 AM by Ran Morrissett »

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2016, 06:03:50 AM »
Buffalo-Niagara tends to take fewer early risks than either coast. The upscale-public movement came to us late. Through 2000, if you wanted to play good public golf, you played at area municipal courses (Sheridan Park, Deerwood, Elma Meadows being the best) or you drove to Canada to play Stanley Thompson's Whirlpool, or the vastly-underrated Byncliff in Varysburg...or you left town!

Our building boom brought us Diamond Hawk and Harvest Hill (Hurdzan-Fry), Seneca Hickory Stick (RTJ2 post-Chambers Bay) Links at Ivy Ridge (kinda home built with a great shaper) Buffalo Tournament Club (home built without a great shaper), Concord Crest (home built by a local superintendent who knew his stuff) and finally, Arrowhead and Ironwood (the latter near Byncliff); I'll get to these two later.

In addition to these new builds, Deerwood added a new 9 holes and Elma Meadows, thanks to the efforts of Kevin Lynch and a county executive who gets golf, expanded lost green features.

On the private side, we have seen restorations of golden-age clubs like Country Club of Buffalo (Ross, revitalized for Forse) Cherry Hill, Orchard Park and Park Club (Travis, Travis and Alison, respectively, renewed by Andrew), Brookfield (Harries, reinvigorated by Mungeam).

We lost one private club (Westwood, a Harries design) and one architect, Scott Witter, who left GCA to pursue another career, after building the new 9 at Deerwood, Ironwood and Arrowhead. Scott was educated as a landscape architect and had little trouble transferring his skills to the private sector. His golf course work was in its early stages and was/is very good. He also renovated three holes at Gowanda Country Club and helped provide space to a fairly-cramped, private club.

One of my favorite pieces of work was the renovation of the Holiday Valley course in Ellicottville (ski heaven) by Paul Albanese. A funky (for the wrong reasons) layout was transformed into a funky (for the proper reasons) course worth playing multiple times.

To speak of the great state of New York as a whole, would be both ingenuous and arrogant. I restrict myself to this slice of the state, extending from the mouth of the Niagara at Lake Ontario (north) to the NY/PA border (south), east about 30 miles, to Batavia on the I-90.

Buffalo-Niagara golf is unlike its 17-year old reflection, for all of these reasons. It's a great place to grow into the game and grow out of the game. When fellow coaches from Ontario (I coach our girls' team in a high school league there) hear that all of these new courses can be had for $50 including cart (if needed) or less most days, they foam at the mouth in anticipation of a southern/eastward swing.

I hesitate not a moment in awarding it an A+.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 06:32:08 AM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in 2025
~Robert Moses Pitch 'n Putt
~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
~~~~~~Sunken Meadow
~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)

archie_struthers

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2016, 08:48:34 AM »
 :D


I'll just comment on the little slice of golfdom that  is deep southern NJ , particularly the Jersey Shore. Since 2000 building has pretty much stopped , as demand was outstripped with the addition of close to a dozen new courses in the 90's . Some excellent courses were built , with Galloway National arguably the top addition at the highest end .


McCullagh's Emerald Links is a fairly high end muni that was the last addition to the fold in the early 2000's . We lost the East  Course at Blue Heron , which had hosted the USGA public links .


Lots of good golf , some renovations to old standby's like Atlantic City and my beloved Greate Bay (more to come) . Plenty of options for most people, private  or public . Better. Inventory than  2000!     Solid B
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 10:07:35 PM by archie_struthers »

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2016, 09:03:39 AM »
Such optimism. I just can't come up with much good in Indiana over the last 17 years. Wolf Run is closing, supers purchasing fans, courses remaining stagnant if not regressing. Pete Dye came to French Lick and built a course no one can afford to play. Sure, Culver is nice…all nine holes. Indiana... D, thank you very much.

Rob Marshall

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2016, 09:14:17 AM »
"We lost one private club (Westwood, a Harries design) and one architect, Scott Witter, who left GCA to pursue another career, after building the new 9 at Deerwood, Ironwood and Arrowhead. Scott was educated as a landscape architect and had little trouble transferring his skills to the private sector. His golf course work was in its early stages and was/is very good. He also renovated three holes at Gowanda Country Club and helped provide space to a fairly-cramped, private club."

Scott did a plan for our club a number of years ago. He lost me when he wanted to change our best par 4 into an easy par 5..........He did have a couple of great ideas for a few other holes but with the economy they were cost prohibitive.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

jeffwarne

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2016, 09:47:48 AM »
17 years ago
a very interesting timeline in the very eastern part of Suffolk County NY


A+


off the top of my head


Courses opened
Friar's Head,
Sebonack
The Bridge
Easthampton
Laurel Links
Cherry Creek (Woods)
The Vineyards




Additional nine
South Fork CC (Hanse)


Substantial (positive)Renovation
Southampton
Atlantic
The Bridge
Westhampton
Maidstone




Minor renovations/restorations/tree clearing
Shinnecock
NGLA
LI National


Sadly Goat Hill has progressively gotten worse





"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jud_T

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Re: Grade your state/county New
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2016, 10:57:03 AM »
Chicago/Illinois-


Lots of good work done and being done at the classic and semi-classic privates- Shoreacres, Old Elm, Beverly, Olympia Fields CC, Glenview, Bob'O'Link, Skokie etc.  Interesting new courses with Medinah #1 and Black Sheep.  The appreciation of the benefits of tree removal is having an impact across the region. Many privates outside the big names and the best suburbs are struggling however.

Publics are still a bit sketchy from a design standpoint (i.e. the disaster reno at Cog Hill!) albeit plentiful.  However Ravisloe turned public, and there's now places like Shepherd's Crook, Highlands of Elgin and the renovated Mount Prospect GC.  There's also a bit more appreciation for places like Langford's Kankakee Elks for those who get good gas mileage.  If there's anything really interesting happening downstate I'd love to hear about it. 


But the bottom line is the vast majority of the state is still essentially dead flat with heavy clay soils and the climate can be challenging.  Hence clubs spend a lot of money on maintenance to approximate conditions found naturally elsewhere.  Those without the resources and connections for the pricy local privates, and those who simply seek better turf, topography and variety, head to Michigan and Wisconsin to weekend, vacation and play. Whistling Straights, Erin Hills and now Sand Valley, not to mention Lawsonia and all the great summer options in Harbor Country and Northern Michigan, now have greater pull on local golfers.  So even though we have perhaps GCA's largest contingent and a dedicated hard-core golfing population, there's still only 2 courses in the state that anyone should consider getting on a plane to see- Chicago Golf and Shoreacres.


B+
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 09:22:34 AM by Jud_T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2016, 11:48:52 AM »
Wisconsin: B


Many may think this is too low, but here's my rationale:


-- Some well-regarded privates, namely Alison's Milwaukee CC and Raynor's Blue Mound G&CC, have been improved notably with attention to tree clearance, better maintenance practices, and a return to wider playing corridors that make more sense. But I can't say other privates have followed in their lead. There are a good number of Golden Era privates in the state (Tripoli, Big Foot, Ozaukee, Maple Bluff, Blackhawk, Nakoma, Eau Claire, Kenosha) that all offer solid courses, but I'm not sure they have tried to replicate what Milwaukee CC, e.g., has done (perhaps for good reasons, i.e., financial).


-- The high-end publics are where Wisconsin has really made its move, although the Blackwolf Run courses were open a decade before 1999. But Whistling Straits (technically opened for play in 1998, but you could arguably slide it into this discussion), Erin Hills, and a few others have notably improved high-end offerings, even though in the minds of some, the new additions are not A+ (Straits is overdone; EHills a somewhat missed opportunity).


-- Lawsonia, a mid-to-high-end range public, stands out in the state for its attention to Langford's original design scheme, significant tree clearance, and a real improvement in maintenance practices. Ran -- you need to revisit and update the Lawsonia profile ASAP; brother John can be your guide.


-- The low-end publics is where I soften the state's grade a bit; not much going on here, and little in the way of dramatic improvements for the typical Wisconsin golfer looking for a round of golf under $50.


Sorry -- can't include Sand Valley in this assessment. Has anyone played a full 18 yet on the first course? I'm not sure how we can evaluate its impact on the state's golfing scene without that. Potential -- yes. But the question isn't about the future of our state's golf offerings.

Joe_Tucholski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2016, 12:01:50 PM »


Sadly Goat Hill has progressively gotten worse



Jeff how can you give an A+ when you end the way you did.


What I'm generally seeing is the top end golf is getting better and the daily plays are getting worse.  For many on here that may be cause for an A+ but that's not my perspective.


I've been in Dayton Ohio for just over a year and haven't experienced much of Ohio golf.  Dayton is rife with golf history (home of MacGregor and hosted the PGA on 3 different courses).  This is also the first time I've been in the top end of private golf.


The last course I played was Brookside, in Canton, and they were working on irrigation throughout the greens.  The course was magnificent and I hope Ran gets there to profile it (it's in the next 50 list).  My home course is doing some tree removal and redoing our bunkers.  In the specified time period our greens were rebuilt, after hosting a USGA event.  I follow our superintendents twitter feed and this week he posted photo's of progress on the bunkers.  I couldn't help but realize how fortunate I am to play a course where significant amounts of money is utilized to improve the overall aesthetics of bunkers (there is also improvement in strategy as bunkers are changing size, location and surrounds).  At the same time I felt a bit guilty.


Next door a great change to Moraine has recently been highlighted.  The work looks amazing and the course looks beautiful from photo's.  There is one thing that I strongly disagree with in Rans review.  It was Fosters thought but the piece states "the low key charm of the club reminded him of the appealing way they go about golf in the United Kingdom."  I think one of the vital aspect of the way they go about golf in the United Kingdom is the availability of the course to the overall community.


Another top thread is about Community Golf Club, reportedly designed by Alex Campbell who designed Moraine.  Community is just over a mile away (with Dayton CC adding a fourth and abutting Community) but it's purpose is much different.  I'd say community is the course that reminds me of the way they go about golf in the UK.  I haven't played the courses, a bit more guilt writing that, despite living less than a mile away and driving by it when I go play golf at my home club.

I have played some public courses in Ohio.  Weatherwax closed 36.  The courses on the military base, while nice haven't had significant work done.

So basically my assessment on the 17 year period with 1 years experience: B-, the top end golf is improving while the daily plays (and even some good private clubs in less than ideal locations) are diminishing.


*Edited to fix micro/unreadable font issue
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 12:07:41 PM by Joe_Tucholski »

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2016, 12:16:28 PM »
Give every state a trophy.

BHoover

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2016, 02:12:17 PM »
Are you buying?


Give every state a trophy.


He's buying rounds for everyone...and downing them himself.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2016, 02:58:39 PM »
Ran rarely starts threads so let's not screw it up with anymore juvenile comments. I'd love to hear a grading of Ohio. With the exception of Moraine the state seems to be in a rut. 17 years ago NCR was top 100.

BCowan

Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2016, 03:14:59 PM »
Ran rarely starts threads so let's not screw it up with anymore juvenile comments. I'd love to hear a grading of Ohio. With the exception of Moraine the state seems to be in a rut. 17 years ago NCR was top 100.

One could play all the great courses in Ohio and add Michigan and have a very fulfilled Golfing life.  Canton Brookside, Kirtland, The Golf Club, Inverness, Camargo, and Scioto.  That is just naming the big guns.  There are many high quality 2nd tier privates. 
olumbus CC is getting a Foster renovation, has potential.  Ohio lacks high quality public golf as a whole, but has areas with strong affordable golf and cities with weak public golf.  Jkava, the voice of reason, that is funny.  I'm looking forward to someone grading Ohio.

Don Hyslop

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2016, 05:40:08 PM »
Nova Scotia definitely deserves an A+ based on the development of Cabot Links and Cabot Cliffs alone. Not only have Ben and Mike created a world class golf destination they have also brought this once depressed area of Inverness back to a growing, vibrant community. Add that to Ian Andrew's work at Highland Links on the other side of Cape Breton, Graham Cooke's The Lakes at Ben Eoin, Thomas McBroom's new Links at Brunello near Halifax and you have projects, completed in the last decade, that make Nova Scotia a must visit spot for the travelling golfer.
Thompson golf holes were created to look as if they had always been there and were always meant to be there.

Jason Way

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2016, 06:55:10 PM »
Chicago/Illinois-


Lots of good work done and being done at the classic and semi-classic privates- Shoreacres, Old Elm, Beverly, Olympia Fields CC, Glenview, Bob'O'Link, Skokie etc.  Interesting new courses with Medinah #1 and Black Sheep.  The appreciation of the benefits of tree removal is having an impact across the region. Many privates outside the big names and the best suburbs are struggling however.

Publics are still a bit sketchy from a design standpoint (i.e. the disaster reno at Cog Hill!) albeit plentiful.  However Ravisloe turned public, and there's now places like Shepherd's Crook and the Highlands of Elgin.  There's also a bit more appreciation for places like Langford's Kankakee Elks for those who get good gas mileage.  If there's anything really interesting happening downstate I'd love to hear about it. 


But the bottom line is the vast majority of the state is still essentially dead flat with heavy clay soils and the climate can be challenging.  Hence clubs spend a lot of money on maintenance to approximate conditions found naturally elsewhere.  Those without the resources and connections for the pricy local privates, and those who simply seek better turf, topography and variety, head to Michigan and Wisconsin to weekend, vacation and play. Whistling Straights, Erin Hills and now Sand Valley, not to mention Lawsonia and all the great summer options in Harbor Country and Northern Michigan, now have greater pull on local golfers.  So even though we have perhaps GCA's largest contingent and a dedicated hard-core golfing population, there's still only 2 courses in the state that anyone should consider getting on a plane to see- Chicago Golf and Shoreacres.


B+


Agree with almost everything Jud said re: Chicago golf in the past 17 years, with a few amendments/additions:


For me, with the changes Kevin Marion, Curtis James, Drew Rogers, and Dave Zinkand have made at Old Elm, it now belongs on the must see list for North Shore visitors.  More great stuff in the works there that will make it even better.  Other courses on the north side that have also made significant improvements are Onwentsia Club (Bruce Hepner and Scott Vincent) and Bryn Mawr CC (Jim Nagle and Brian Bossert). 


I'm not sure if the opening of the Youth Links at Cantigny falls within this time frame, but that facility continues to lead the way with youth programs - youth golf, the First Tee, and a caddie program are all alive and well there.


More recently, the project by Dave Esler at Mt Prospect brought classic architecture to the masses here in Chicago that wasn't previously available.


Mike Benkusky's work here in IL spans a very interesting range since 2001.  That is the year that Canyata opened - as exclusive as they come.  This year, Mike's rework of Arlington Lakes opened featuring a rerouting of the course in 3,6,9,18 hole loops to accommodate the time constraints of modern family golfers. 


Ray Hearn completed a renovation of Mistwood.  I have not been back yet since they reopened, but feedback seems to be good. 


Rich Harvest Farms opened in 1999, and Chicago Highlands opened in 2007.  While those courses are not everyone's cup of tea, they do have their fans.  I think that there are a few really cool holes out at Chicago Highlands. 


And finally, with the project at South Shore / Jackson Park getting underway, and the good Lord willing, our project at Canal Shores moving forward meaningfully in 2017, there are interesting options on the horizon for IL golfers.


At this 17-year mark, I would give IL a B- for GCA changes.  If the current trends continue though, at the 20-year mark, I could see us earning an A-, or even an A.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2016, 07:06:49 PM »
San Francisco and immediate surrounds


I'll take a try at this one, although I wasn't in San Francisco until 2003 and onwards.


On the public side, Harding Park's renovation could have been more inspired, but it's still quite the upgrade from what was there previously. Presidio is doing ongoing enhancements — few would call it a "great" golf course, but it is quite a bit better than it was in 1999. Golden Gate Park Golf Course is still there. And the fact that Lincoln Park, Sharp Park, and Gleneagles (with its new greens) even still exist is a victory, while still acknowledging the lost potential at Lincoln and Sharp in particular. Basically, five golf courses that could all be better but have all had net positive outcomes, maybe net very positive outcomes, since 1999.


On the private side, there's Cal Club's A+ renovation. Olympic Lake cleared out lots of trees, built two new holes, beefed itself up for the US Open, and recently rebuilt its bunkers — a net positive just for the tree removal (and associated better conditions), even if the new holes and deep bunkers have their detractors. The Ocean course was rebuilt and it's better than it was. SFGC re-established its 13th-15th holes, while Lake Merced is probably the least-changed since 1999 but it's looking good, and it's contemplating a re-do of the 4th and 8th greens that don't fit in with the rest.


Frankly, the biggest downer since 1999 was losing the lighted driving range in SoMa, although it's hard to argue with making room for medical research and a children's hospital. And 9-hole Cypress Golf Course in Colma closed...but with Fleming (Harding's 9-hole course), GGP, and Gleneagles around, there are still a decent number of 9-hole options.


A few things could be better, but given the challenges of running public courses in a National Park (Presidio), in city parks (GGP and Lincoln), on environmentally sensitive coastline (Sharp), under city control (GGP, Lincoln, Harding, Fleming), and in one of the most cramped housing markets the country...you have to say the outcomes have been at lest pretty good.


Overall grade: B.

Blake Conant

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Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2016, 07:25:33 PM »
Nebraska: B+


Golden Age work was hit or miss.  The reno of OCC by Keith Foster was well received.  Happy Hollow undertook work that wiped out any remaining Langford.  Ironwood CC (formerly Highland CC), another Langford, closed.  Lincoln CC, an assumed Langford routing has maintained.  Dannebrog was sort of "put on the map" as much as a sand green course can be put on the map. Field Club continues to be suffocated by trees. 


New courses deserve an A.  Arbor Links, Bayside, Dismal White, Dismal Red, Pelican Beach, Prairie Club Dunes, Prairie Club Pines, Wild Horse, Tatanka, and Thedford GC, all opened after 1999. 


The city of Omaha has reinvested in some of the notable public courses like Benson GC, Johnny Goodman GC, and Elmwood, as well.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2016, 07:52:28 PM »
Oregon - A+
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2016, 08:16:41 PM »
To elaborate, Oregon has added the Bandon Dunes Resort (three more courses, with the original Bandon Dunes opening in 1999), plus the Pronghorn courses and Bandon Crossings.  In addition, the Waverly (or Waverley) CC renovation greatly improves the golf course, and firmly places it as the top course in Portland.

It would be fair to say that 6-7 of the top ten courses in Oregon have been added, or restored, since 1999.

Grade: A (or A+ if Sven insists) 

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2016, 08:40:44 PM »
Ohio. Let’s think about this.

What has opened since 1999? Off the top of my head, TPC River's Bend in Cincy and Pinnacle Golf Club in Columbus are the two private courses I can think of. TPC isn't half bad for a TPC course. I've heard good things about Pinnacle, but haven't played it yet. I guess Four Bridges in north Cincinnati wasn’t 18 holes until 2000, so I suppose it counts. Sand Ridge opened in 1998, so it doesn’t count. The merger of Sand Ridge and Mayfield did happen during this time, and was smart for both clubs.

There’s been a number of new public courses that opened. Longaberger (now The Virtues) has to be the most prominent of these. When it opened, it was in impeccable condition, charged a high greens fee, and sold out of tee-times almost a year in advance. Today, the conditions aren’t quite as good, greens fees are reduced, and tee-times are plentiful. Personally, I think the course is way overrated, but that’s just my opinion.

Other public courses of note include: Stonelick Hills, Elks Run, Indian Ridge in Cincy, The Quarry in Canton, Shale Creek, Little Mountain, Boulder Creek in Cleveland, Deer Ridge near Mansfield, Northstar near Columbus, Links of Firestone Farms near Youngstown. These are the ones I know of for sure. It’s very possible I’m missing a couple. I guess you can include Phoenix (aka Stinky Links) in Columbus, which opened and went NLE during this time.

I’ve played most on that list. Most of these courses are pretty good, but not one probably not higher than a Doak 5. My favorite is The Quarry. I think it’s 3 or 4 boring holes away from being a solid Doak 6. That, and power lines, if that sort of thing irritates you. The downside is at least half of these courses aren't realistically walkable, which will knock them down for those for which walking is an important criterion.

The Cincinnati area got a Top Golf this summer (2016), which immediately placed itself as the second best public course in the Cincinnati area. I'm half not joking.

There have been some very good renovations in this time. Large-scale renovations at Moraine and Brookside (Canton) come immediately to mind. Inverness also had a fairly large renovation, for the better. Scioto and OSU (Scarlet) also had renovations; the former generally is praised while the latter slightly more controversial. I believe Camargo, The Country Club (Pepper Pike), and Kirtland also have done minor renovations. As mentioned above, NCR South is getting some work done this off-season; and from what I’ve seen thus far, it’s going to be a better course for it. Muirfield Village continues to be nipped and tucked, though I would argue not always for the better.

There have been a number of courses close in this time. The Ross design at Acadia CC in Cleveland is the most notable one I can think of. Piqua CC was saved at the last minute. The 36 holes at Weatherwax Muni in Middletown will be a big loss for junior golf in the Cincy/Dayton area, as they hosted many high school tournaments. I’m not sure when Thunderhill opened, but it certainly closed during this time. Never got to play it. It’s 152 slope rating and copious water made it one of the hardest courses in the state. It's probably best left as a fishery.

Putting my thoughts on screen, the new construction efforts are probably a C. Upkeep on the state’s best is probably an A-. I think a B or B- is a fair grade for Ohio.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 10:51:49 AM by Criss Titschinger »

Ed Homsey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2016, 09:06:58 PM »
Rochester, NY area:


Remarkable renovations of Ross courses, CC of Rochester and Monroe GC by Gill Hanse.  From my perspective, both renovations brought life to those courses.  I have no idea how they've been received by membership.


My own course, Stafford CC, had a major bunker renovation project by Ian Andrew.  Brought new life to the course, though Ian has suggested some modifications of that work.  The plan was developed in 1998, with the work done in 1999-2000.  The changes that Ian suggests reflects the growth in understanding of Travis's work since the original bunker work.


One of our long-time private clubs, Ridgemont CC, has become a semi-private club.  It seems to be thriving.  Prior to that change, a major bunker renovation project was completed under the direction of architect Scott Witter.


Our network of muni courses has undergone a change in management recently.  From all report, the change resulted in a vast improvement in the conditioning of the courses.  I do not know if that improvement has resulted in an increase in number of golfers.


 

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2016, 09:38:24 PM »
Delaware County , Pa. grades highly.


Classic courses like Merion,Aronimink, Llanerch, Springhaven, and Rolling Green have been sensibly restored or renovated.


Glen Mills is a great new public course.


Paxon Hollow has had some nice pro bono Wagner bunker redos.


I just drove by the nine hole Clayton Park and also think Olde Masters should be noted for cheap thrills.


B is probably the grade.



« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 10:16:33 PM by mike_malone »
AKA Mayday

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2016, 10:15:08 PM »
Texas.
We have had threads in the past about my home state--and the reasons there are so few truly outstanding courses in the state--terrain, soil, weather, etc.  Yet we are one of the three or four best golf states in the nation in terms of outstanding golfers--both professional and amateur.  And I hate to concede that our golf courses are bound to remain just pretty mediocre forever.
We have had some moderately good, new courses in the past few years.  And, hopefully, Trinity Forest in Dallas, future home of the Byron Nelson, which is now open, will turn out good.  But, having said all that, I'd reluctantly give our state a solid C in recent course development.  I hope I'm wrong looking forward.

John Ezekowitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2016, 11:17:14 PM »
I think Boston and its surrounds would be a solid A-.


New courses: Boston Golf Club and Old Sandwich are both excellent. TPC Boston (built in 2003) is substantially better after the Hanse redesign.


Positive changes: Obviously George Wright stands out as a darling on this site. The Country Club has undergone a massive tree clearing program which to my mind has been very successful. I like the new tees and playing the 2nd as a par 3 for tournaments, as well. Many other area clubs (Belmont, Dedham and Pine Brook) have been taking trees out and restoring greens to their original pads, too. Finally, little Fresh Pond (9 hole muni in Cambridge) has substantially improved its conditioning and added some good new strategic bunkering.


What could get better? The other municipal courses around Boston have potential. Franklin Park is crying out for some more love. I heard Ponkapoag has had work done to it, but I haven't been to see it yet.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grade your state/county
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2016, 11:18:22 PM »
California - B


Some great restorations:
LACC
Cal Club
Meadow Club
Wilshire
Brentwood
Pasatiempo
Valley Club


Not so great:
Lake Merced
Olympic
Pebble Beach
Torrey Pines
Fort Ord


A few new good courses:
Stoneeagle
Martis Camp
TPC Stonebrae


Almost 60 courses have closed.


A very mixed bag.