2016-17 Winter Tour: Celtic Manor TWENTY TEN COURSE

[Ryan Coles]

Sean

What do I think of the 2010?

I've never played it. I've been to most Wales Opens and seen the varying formats / guises that Ben Stephens mentions  but only ever played the Roman road and montgomerie in the current layouts. That was on a break at this time of year. Accommodation ridiculously good value relative to quality.

My take on the the 2010 is it's probably the best of a bad bunch on the complex.

My experience of playing the other two and the golfing experience? The memory makes me want to vomit. It's everything I hate. Unwalkable, slow, trudging back to the buggy etc. Even the clubhouse / range / pro shop is a chore. I'm not eloquent enough to explain how much I despise the place from a golfing stand point. As a Bristolian, I would rather play a short tree choked course such as Henbury any day or a modern design by our own Adrian Stiff.

As for the resort being profitable. That's nonsense. It is nothing short of an expensive, vanity excercise that has offered terrible ROI. It truly is the stupid persons idea of what good golf is.

And I say this as someone who is not overly critical of UK parkland golf and usually I take it for what it is and try not to be a snob.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ryan,


a very insightful view point which I would imagine just about hits the mark.


Adrian,


re-instate? what, how. Typo?


Jon

[Adrian_Stiff]

Ryan,


a very insightful view point which I would imagine just about hits the mark.


Adrian,


re-instate? what, how. Typo?


Jon

Yes Typo my apologies (restate)

[Sean_A]

By 'strong' Sean I meant tough, hard, challenging, difficult to score on even after warming up with free range balls and using the short game practice area.

Whatever one thinks about the 2010 course itself and whether those thoughts are purely golf architecture based or have other perceptions, it must be appreciated that the 2010 was built for a purpose........and only partly a golf purpose. The whole complex is about many different aspects. For example the Nato conference in 2014 was held at CM and there are joint ventures with the Welsh Assembly apparently due to come along. There's a bigger picture than just the 2010 course.

Is the 2010 course a classical architectural masterpiece? No. It is an example of how course design, construction and maintenance has moved in the last few decades in the UK and what can be achieved with drainage? Yes. Would folks who post herein prefer to play Royal Porthcawl or Southerndown or other South Wales coastal courses rather than the CM-2010? Almost undoubtedly. However, knowledge and experience, either good or bad, can be gained from playing various sorts of course including one akin to the 2010.

As to the course itself. It's long and it's tough/hard/challenging/difficult. The fairways and green surrounds play dry - there is a great deal of drainage under the fairways but only a few manhole covers are visible. There are a lot of fairway bunkers of the staggered left-right-left-right or right-left-right-left sort on many holes. The fairway bunkering is of the "hit it in a fairway bunker and it's a wedge or maybe a short iron recovery" variety. The sand is very heavy. Angles in golf are always important and at the 2010 the playing angles seem particularly important. There are some fine, challenging holes, like the par-3 3rd and the par-4 14th. There are lots of roll-offs and chipping areas around the greens. Up-n-downs are not easy and 3-putting is quite easily achieved. Green to next tee walks are long and on the latter holes quite severely sloped.

Comments on two holes -

15th - just a horrible hole. Playing up the left fairway it's a looong way to the turn of the dogleg and then a nasty short iron shot from a downhill lie to a very raised green. Hitting through the gap in the trees directly at the green makes more sense even for short hitters even if the next shot is played blind and from the rough. Only bombers will reach the green. This could be a great hole and a great spectator viewing hole too but at the moment it's simply vile. Cut all or almost all the bloody central trees down. Make it a loooong par-3 or short par-4. It already has a wicked stadium green with a whole bunch of internal contour.

18th - how do you stay on the green? The pond in front is full of ProV1's! that have rolled back down the shaved bank into the pond. Dozens of them, and all just out of reach. The front of the green slopes also towards the pond. Playing to the green after laying up is, unless your outside circa 150 yds, going to be from an appreciable downslope. Peach a shot with spin and land it on the front of the green and it'll spin back and trickle down the bank into the pond. Hit to the middle or back of the green when the pin is upfront and putting into the pond is a possibility. Argh...

Another aspect worth commenting on is the pace of play which was very slow made worse by the yellow tees being 6,500 yds, which is too long for most of the players we watched playing, and the fact that buggies cannot be taken on the fairways (there are buggy paths alongside each hole). Park the buggy, grab the wrong club, walk across the fairway, hit shot, return to buggy, drive a short distance and repeat several times. Funny how buggies don't have rearview mirrors, perhaps this is why buggy users don't let faster walkers through!

Great golf course? No. Worth experiencing once (or twice)? Yes.........if you eat steak all the time how do you know how nice (or unpleasant) fish or fowl or vegetables etc are?


atb

PS - given the drizzle and later darkness the photos have come out nicely. Well done.

atb

I can't say I was disppointed because my low expectations were largely met.  I did find a few things surprising.  First is width...despite the stupid abundance of water which to some degree I am sure was unavoidable, for the most part the course offered room to stay dry and on the short stuff.  Of course, the many forced carries offsets the concept of width somewhat. Second, I was very surprised not to find a single hole which I thought was quite clever and well excecuted.  2010 literally felt like it was designed on a computer and for this reason alone I can't really get behind the design.  Other well respected modern designs such as Remedy Oak and The Grove (neither of which impressed me) at least have some properly interesting holes rather than the bang the golfer over the head approach. The odd thing is that I am not convinced the course works on a challenge level for the pros.  It seems to me that a decent pro on his game would have 2010 in the bag. The design plays straight into the hands of bombing/carry distance golf...something pros must love to see because its all about execution.  I do think a better course could have been built if challenging flat bellies was taken off the table, but then there would have been no need to build the course if flat bellies weren't part of the story. Its a catch 22 situation for the designer and one where he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. 

The ironic thing is I played wee Welshpool (also in Wales) the week previous and thought it a marginally better design than 2010 and it certainly has more holes of true interest on offer than the 2010.  Welshpool would make my top 100 GB&I...I am afraid 2010 would not. 

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,


I suspect that the reason that the course is so uninspiring is that the developer wanted a golf course because it was part of the the whole concept but wasn't really fussed about the quality of the course. If they were interested in quality then another site would have been chosen. What also wouldn't have helped was how last minute everything was which led to such stunning cock ups as the farmhouse debacle. Just my opinion but had the quality of the course ever been of any importance then more though and time would have been taken in the planning.


Jon

[Sean_A]

Sean,

I suspect that the reason that the course is so uninspiring is that the developer wanted a golf course because it was part of the the whole concept but wasn't really fussed about the quality of the course. If they were interested in quality then another site would have been chosen. What also wouldn't have helped was how last minute everything was which led to such stunning cock ups as the farmhouse debacle. Just my opinion but had the quality of the course ever been of any importance then more though and time would have been taken in the planning.

Jon

Jon

I spose my take is different.  I think many believe 2010 is inspiring because lots of people like plenty of water and otherwise straight-forward golf...as Adrian suggests.  Despite the poor site I think something much better could have been built, but thats just my opinion and one which doesn't care much for designing for pros...many others feel differently.

Ciao