Who is the next Ben Crenshaw?

[John Foley]

Rather than hi-jacking the PD thread I'll start another one. It has been well documented and reviewed that Ben's passion & work in the field of architecture is second to none of those who play the game at the highest level. Nothing against Norman, Nicklaus, Faldo, Palmer, etc.. but his sense of history, his passion and talent leave him in the highest regard when discussing architecture. While the others we think of are either lightly lauded or scoffed at, I beleive the consensous is that Mr. Crenshaw has had an extremely positive impact on the current state of the golf's architecture.

I don't want to get into how much of what we see is Coore's handiwork or even if a "name player/PD" is needed or add's any value beyond selling tee-times &/or real estate. The question is, who among the younger (lets call it sub 40) sect can we point to that, 1: is interested in to a similar level and 2: hopefully will have an extremely positive impact on the world of architeture?

Remember CB & Old Tom we're hell of a great players many moons ago.

[TEPaul]

Good question!

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm very interested to see if Phil Mickelson can follow up with a course like his first effort, Whisper Rock.

This question is a little for track, maybe it should be "Who is the next Bill Coore"?

[John Foley]

Joel,

That may be an even better question!

Mickleson is a good thought, does he seem to have too many iron's in the fire? Does he have a mentor to help guide/help him? (Did Ben?)

Bottom line & like it or not, players names will forever be inter-twined w/ design & architecture. Who is the next one to really get into the details, immerse him (or her)self in the history and make a difference.

[bakerg]

You know I would be very curious what David Duval could do as an architect or as a consultant.  I know his game seems to be a ways off these days, but that wouldn't matter too much when it came to designing courses.  He would probably make more landing room for the tee shot if anything.  But given how anaylitcal he is I doubt that he would just mail it in as far as designing a course.  I think he would delve deep into the details and question everything from bunker placement to the shapes of the greens.  

[Rick Shefchik]

Justin Leonard seems to have some throwback qualities -- or maybe it just seems that way because his lack of length forces him to play a more traditional style. But I'd like to see what he'd do with a nice piece of land.

What about Tiger? The pressure on him to accept $10 million to design a golf course will be enormous. Will he do it on the back of a cocktail napkin -- after all, they'd be buying his name, not knowing if he could design a decent putt-putt -- or would he throw himself into the challenge, the way he seems to do everything else?

My guess is a Tiger Woods course would, like a Nicklaus course, reward his set of strengths -- length off the tee, chipping areas around the greens, and fairways protected by thick rough and bunkers rather than trees. I'm not sure that he'd be particularly traditional, but I wouldn't expect goofy.

 

[TEPaul]

You know I've always felt that difference is part of the deal in golf architecture. So the pro golfer/architectural talent I'd really like to see (whether or not he's the next Ben Crenshaw) is Scott Hoch!

It's possible that Hoch has the ability to finally pull off the  real essence of that GREAT AMERICAN GOLF COURSE that has as yet to be built or even conceived of!! I think American architecture needs to break away from those cobwebby old influences of where golf came from and Scott just may be the best hope to finally pull that off architecturally!  

[TEPaul]

Kye Goalby actually talked with Tiger about doing architecture at one of the Masters. Tiger apparently said golf architecture is something he really would be interested in doing but not for the next 20 or so years. He said there were other things he wanted to focus on in the interim.

[Dan Kelly]

Lynn Shackelford, March 17, 2002 -- thanks to the fine gca.com search mechanism:

"Briefly I heard Stewart Cink on the golf channel respond to a question by Mark Lye about the firm greens.  He said he liked the idea of firm greens but felt the fairways should also be firm and at Bay Hill the rest of the course is not as firm as the greens.  He also said he was not opposed to a pull back of the golf ball.  Sometimes I think he almost "gets it!" "

-------------

Others mentioned, in that conversation, that Cink is a fan of Geo. Thomas's "Golf Architecture in America."

The question is: Will he ever achieve stardom on Tour, so as to be a marquee name -- the type that practicing architects want to be associated with; the type that golf-course developers would pay extra money for?

Or will he have made so much money, even as he failed to achieve stardom, that he won't have the hunger needed to get seriously into the architecture business?

[Brian_Ewen]

Brad Faxon

[Michael Dugger]

I know these types of exercises are in fun but isn't this a lot of heresy?  

I know who is going to be the next Bill Coore, me!

Really, though, which of us knows a tour player well enough to really determine how deeply they have taken gca into their hearts?  It is encouraging that Stewart Cink reads Thomas' book, isn't he the fellow who doned Payne Stewart's knickers in the tournament following that tragic death?

Speaking of, I bet Payne Stewart could have been a hell of an archie, what with his free wheeling spirit.  

That said, I can't say a lot for the efforts of Peter Jacobsen and he's about as colorful as they come.

If I had to pick a couple off of the top of my head, like my life depended on it, I would want to see what the following would do:

Craig Stadler
Gary McCord
Ian Woosnam (surely he'd be a drinkin' on the jobsite!)
Duval (he'd be chewin')
Rich Beem
David Feherty
Frank Nobilo (love his furry beard)
Elkington
Jose Maria Olazabel (surely he'd have clever greens complexes)
Nick Price

No particular reason why other than they are either drinkers, characters or unique in one way or another.
 

[Mike_Cirba]

Davis Love III?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

lol Mike you beat me to it. I was just wondering what you guys thought of Davis Love. I have one of his courses near me, yet have not gone to see it. I do not think he is turning out the quality of product Ben does but may have some of the same desire to do it.

[SPDB]

Depending on what you're looking for, David Duval could either be the second coming or apocalypse.

If you're looking for somebody who will embrace classical design ideals, I'd say that David Duval is the last pro golfer you would want. He's on record as saying the person (real or imagined) he most closely resembles (again, real or imagined) is Howard Roark, Ayn Rand's famous Fountainhead character.

As many know, Roark was expelled from architecture school for refusing to adhere to classical styles.

However, given the unmistakable fact that Roark is a Rand's fictional representation of Frank Lloyd Wright, perhaps he could be a good architect.  

"David Duval laughed."

[SPDB]

Both Love and Faxon have already (co)designed courses.
Love (anderson creek, etc.) and Faxon (Newport Nat'l, w/ Booth).

Haven't seen the work of either one.

[Michael Moore]

Because he is portrayed as an intellectual, David Duval.

There was the interview where he said he was reading Ulysses. How about a course in Dublin with one hole representing each chapter of Joyce's masterpiece?

[Patrick_Mucci]

John Foley,

Obviously, Ben Crenshaw Jr.  

[jg7236]

John Cook

Peter Jacobson

[Andrew_Roberts]

jg

Not Jacobson, he has been quoted as he doesn't like to put too many hazards on the right side of the golf course because of the amount of right handed slicers out there.  He is not the next Ben.  But it would be interesting if he his architecture had a sense of humor to it.  He could his sense of humor to build golf new original golf courses but his courses would probably repersent some amusement park ride.  Probably 100 degree double dog legs with  and other gimmicks.

[Brock Peyer]

Casey Martin, he has a Stanford education and probably sees the courses differently than most pros and probably appreciates them more too.

[ian]

Davis Love III would be my first chioce too. He knows a lot about the history of the game and loves the old architects work.

The John Cook comment struck me as another great choice, he has already built Cooks Creek with Hurdzan Fry.

[Gary_Smith]

Am I insane for thinking Sergio might be the guy given his flair for fun, enjoyment of shotmaking, marquee value and his growing up playing plenty of links courses....?

Probably.

 

[TEPaul]

I'd also say Davis Love. I've played one of his courses in Georgia a few times and thought it was very good. Davis Love will be building golf courses for public play. That includes everyone except redanman, of course--Davis doesn't want that oddball and malcontent on any property he's had anything to do with!  

[John Foley]

I like Davis Love as the answer. Are any of his design's been blessed w/ a great piece of property yet? I think it's a matter of time before he does get a great piece. David Duval, Casey Martin & Justin Leanord are also intriguing, especially since their apparent intelect is pointed out. Brad Faxon is a good call. Sergio? While he has the flair, does he have the passion for the history?

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:  Ben Crenshaw has three daughters and no son, so if your answer lies there it must be Katharine Crenshaw.

I don't know many of the young players on Tour at all so I can't identify who might fit the mold ... if anyone does.  The last guy like Ben before Ben must be a hell of a long way back because I can't think of anyone who comes close.

I have known him for 23 years and can vouch for the fact that he had a real interest in golf architecture well before then ... listing other guys who are Ben's age in the responses above was kind of silly.

Of the ones I have met, Davis Love 3d most fits the bill ... he cares about architecture and he's spent several years trying to figure out how to set up a company to do it right, and he's a good person besides.  Whether he has real ability in golf course architecture, and whether he really wants to spend the time at it, I cannot say.  One thing that will work against him is that he is famous enough to be of most interest to housing developers with "B" property ... they'll be willing to pay him more than would someone with a great piece of land.  One of the major ways Ben and Bill got to where they are was by turning down a lot of those jobs early in their partnership; Davis has not turned them down.

I do know that John Fought wants to spend the time.  I do know that Brad Faxon is serious about it.

I do know that Tiger Woods has the interest in golf and the brain to be a major contributor to golf architecture if he wants to be ... but I can't see many developers offering to pay him the $10 million it would take to get his name on their course.