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Ben Kodadek

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2016, 02:39:14 PM »
Played Winter Park today on the way back from Deltona, which has recovered from previous conditioning issues. Absolutely loved Winter Park. Kids, women, high school players... it is THE right answer for golf. USGA take note....


On the second tee, my partner ask "Are you THE Mike Sweeney from Golf Club Atlas?" Too funny, but that is who the place attracts - Real Golfers.


Small GCA world indeed.   


Mike, it was a pleasure to meet up with you.   

Mark Pritchett

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2016, 03:06:52 PM »
Played Winter Park today on the way back from Deltona, which has recovered from previous conditioning issues. Absolutely loved Winter Park. Kids, women, high school players... it is THE right answer for golf. USGA take note....



Are you suggesting 9 hole courses are "the right answer" or something else? 

Mike Sweeney

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2016, 03:45:22 PM »

Are you suggesting 9 hole courses are "the right answer" or something else?


I have never seen anything like Winter Park CC in the USA, and it seems like it is unique to golf in the USA. Closest thing is Equinox Resort in Vermont and maybe Pinehurst, but they are resort towns. Winter Park is the first suburb east of Orlando. Within walking distance of the course that I saw are:
  • Park Avenue - the center of Winter Park's very cool restaurant and shopping area. I only had time to grab a coffee, but it had a great vibe.
  • Rollins College and all the social aspects with having a downtown college campus.
  • The University Club was right across the street which seems to be very low key and welcoming - http://www.uclubwp.org
  • There were many beautiful homes and a number of lakes driving in an out of the area.
I live in Manhattan so I have an idea of the value of urban open space, and it was/is an amazing commitment for Winter Park to keep the course in its historical footprint in the modern world. There could be lots of arguments for other sports and activities to take that space.


As a result, golf is literally woven into the fabric of the town. There are all sorts of things going on around the course, but the traffic in the area moves slowly so it is not annoying traffic as a golfer. The practice green and range had a ton of kids on them. There were lots of walkers, runners and bikers on the edges. If Walt Disney was a golfer, Winter Park and WPCC would be his model.


So much of golf is about driving to the remote outpost to play. This place has to be an insurance nightmare for the Town, so I really appreciate what they did to preserve the urban nature of the course. For family reasons, we have the Disney version of a timeshare in Florida. As a golfer and urban dweller, I would fit right in at Winter Park during the "snowbird" season.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tom_Doak

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2016, 04:59:54 PM »
Mike:


It sounds a lot like Audubon Park in New Orleans, which I wrote up for The Confidential Guide, Volume 2.  Right across the street from Tulane University, set in an urban park, accessible by public transportation, some nice homes on the perimeter.  Audubon Park has 18 holes but that includes twelve par-3's, four par-4's, and two par-5's for a par of 62.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2016, 06:13:31 PM »

Thanks Jeff
What was your estimated project cost?
Cheers


Mike,
I would have to go to the dead jobs file on the external cloud and/or hard drive because I don't recall.  All I know is it was a bit tight based on pricing I have seen lately.  If they got it done for the budget amount, I would say they gave the city a good design and great value.  The kind of value that is required to rebuild a moderate price public course these days!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Bill Vogeney

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2016, 10:59:01 PM »
Very cool-thanks for the pictures. I lived in Orlando from 87-01 and played WPCC a lot with my wife for fun after work. Notice the words "for fun." It was a great little walk. There were three par 4's that I recall were drivable. 1, 6 and 9. You could make a 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6. The 4th hole playing across the cemetery was just awesome-you really had to position your shots.


It looks like they thinned out some trees-the corridors on 3, 4, 6 and 9 look wider than I recall.


I am so glad they did this. The game needs more 9 hole courses-keep the price down, and take less time to play. Resolves two of the three downsides to golf

Sean_A

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2016, 04:20:00 AM »

Are you suggesting 9 hole courses are "the right answer" or something else?


I have never seen anything like Winter Park CC in the USA, and it seems like it is unique to golf in the USA. Closest thing is Equinox Resort in Vermont and maybe Pinehurst, but they are resort towns. Winter Park is the first suburb east of Orlando. Within walking distance of the course that I saw are:
  • Park Avenue - the center of Winter Park's very cool restaurant and shopping area. I only had time to grab a coffee, but it had a great vibe.
  • Rollins College and all the social aspects with having a downtown college campus.
  • The University Club was right across the street which seems to be very low key and welcoming - http://www.uclubwp.org
  • There were many beautiful homes and a number of lakes driving in an out of the area.
I live in Manhattan so I have an idea of the value of urban open space, and it was/is an amazing commitment for Winter Park to keep the course in its historical footprint in the modern world. There could be lots of arguments for other sports and activities to take that space.


As a result, golf is literally woven into the fabric of the town. There are all sorts of things going on around the course, but the traffic in the area moves slowly so it is not annoying traffic as a golfer. The practice green and range had a ton of kids on them. There were lots of walkers, runners and bikers on the edges. If Walt Disney was a golfer, Winter Park and WPCC would be his model.


So much of golf is about driving to the remote outpost to play. This place has to be an insurance nightmare for the Town, so I really appreciate what they did to preserve the urban nature of the course. For family reasons, we have the Disney version of a timeshare in Florida. As a golfer and urban dweller, I would fit right in at Winter Park during the "snowbird" season.


Mike


Thanks for the report.  This course looks to be a real winner for me.  If you like townie courses, try Aiken.  Its not dead in the centre of town, but its only a 10 minute walk to middle of the high st.  Very good golf for $25 and I believe acts as a daylight watering hole. I was very impressed.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield & Alnmouth,

Kirk Gill

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2016, 11:32:30 AM »
Boy, on that 4th hole, if you're left, you're dead.








Ok, sorry. Move along.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Lyndell Young

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Played a quick nine at Winter park today and greatly enjoyed it,very good challenge despite the it being rather short.My wife played one of her best rounds.What else can you ask for in a design.A very neat place!

Andy Johnson

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2017, 11:39:34 AM »
I went out to Winter park during the PGA Show and what a great job Keith and Riley did making that course into something fun and special. I took my drone out for a quick flight, unfortunately I took off on a side slope so the camera was tilted but I captured some cool little video footage. Here's the link to it, figured you guys might enjoy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF2OkB0phjw

Matt Schiffer

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2017, 12:39:29 PM »
Just played Winter Park earlier this week and my thoughts echo many of those expressed already.  I love the way that it's woven into and enveloped by the leafy suburban community and every element of the design seems to maximize the fun, convenient and accessible ethos.  Had I seen this thread earlier I would have definitely attempted to set up a round with Rees.


In answer to Mike Nuzzo's question, the local news said it was renovated for $1.2 million, which included all new irrigation, tees, greens and bunkers.


It does seem to be a bit of a paradigm shift in that it brings some very cool and strategic design elements (no rough, an economy (22) of strategic bunkers, firm and fast conditions encouraging the ground game) to a low cost municipal layout in the US.  It's longer than an executive course and plays like an out-of-the-way UK village 9 hole links but is playable for all with absolutely no carries anywhere.  I only brought 7 golf clubs with me (D, 3W, 5i, 7i, 9i, wedge, putter) and made a point of playing it differently on my two trips around.  Each took slightly more than an hour, even with groups of "experienced ladies" ahead of me.  Cost of $16 for an out-of-towner midweek.

Furthermore, the entire facility sits on about 40 acres and everyone I saw was walking!


I'd dare say that if more municipal golf could replicate WPs mix of fun, cost and pace of play, the sport wouldn't have so much trouble attracting and retaining players.


I can't help but wonder though, does this sort of course (at less than 5,000 yards from the back and par 70) appeal to really good golfers?  Probably doesn't need to, right?  I'm a 20 handicap and it had the design variety and playing characteristics to hold my interest most days of the week.  Different kind of course obviously but I feel the same way about The Preserve at Bandon (that was also Keith Rhebb maybe?)...
Providing freelance design, production and engineering for GCAs around the world! http://greengrassengineering.com/landing/

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2017, 09:23:54 AM »
Thank you Matt, although I asked what was Jeff's estimated project cost, not actual costs. :)
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

jeffwarne

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Re: The Renovated Winter Park Country Club – Holy Cow!!!!!!!! - A Photo Tour
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2017, 04:01:12 PM »
Just played Winter Park earlier this week and my thoughts echo many of those expressed already.  I love the way that it's woven into and enveloped by the leafy suburban community and every element of the design seems to maximize the fun, convenient and accessible ethos.  Had I seen this thread earlier I would have definitely attempted to set up a round with Rees.


In answer to Mike Nuzzo's question, the local news said it was renovated for $1.2 million, which included all new irrigation, tees, greens and bunkers.


It does seem to be a bit of a paradigm shift in that it brings some very cool and strategic design elements (no rough, an economy (22) of strategic bunkers, firm and fast conditions encouraging the ground game) to a low cost municipal layout in the US.  It's longer than an executive course and plays like an out-of-the-way UK village 9 hole links but is playable for all with absolutely no carries anywhere.  I only brought 7 golf clubs with me (D, 3W, 5i, 7i, 9i, wedge, putter) and made a point of playing it differently on my two trips around.  Each took slightly more than an hour, even with groups of "experienced ladies" ahead of me.  Cost of $16 for an out-of-towner midweek.

Furthermore, the entire facility sits on about 40 acres and everyone I saw was walking!


I'd dare say that if more municipal golf could replicate WPs mix of fun, cost and pace of play, the sport wouldn't have so much trouble attracting and retaining players.


I can't help but wonder though, does this sort of course (at less than 5,000 yards from the back and par 70) appeal to really good golfers?  Probably doesn't need to, right?  I'm a 20 handicap and it had the design variety and playing characteristics to hold my interest most days of the week.  Different kind of course obviously but I feel the same way about The Preserve at Bandon (that was also Keith Rhebb maybe?)...


Drove by yesterday after a college tour of Rollins-what a beautiful town, Park and course-shockingly hard to believe that one is 10 minutes from the outlet mall blight that is Orlando.
OT-anyone have any insight on Rollins? (PM please to keep on topic)
Course looked like a blast to play and looked in great condition- a warm winter I'm sure helped.
Amazed that it only cost you $16 to play in high season.
Saw only wallkers.
The world needs a lot more of these and a lot less of the other nonsense
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Anthony Gholz

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To All:



I just got back from a Florida golf trip and we started out at Winter Park.  I had such a great time I wanted to find a thread on gca I could bump to give it another shout out.


Having read Tony P's book I was aware of the course, but not prepared for the context and FUN I had.  This was the most interesting 9-hole course and certainly the most interesting public course in an urban context I've ever read about, much less played.  And it includes the prerequisite RR tracks and accompanying sounds.  Wonderful greens, great bunkering, lot's of room to play even with the city streets so close.  I recommend what we did: play nine in the morning, leave your clubs by the pro shop (they'll watch them), WALK into town for lunch, and come back for a second nine.


Congratulations to the architectural and construction team and to the town leaders who backed this concept and integral piece of the town's history.
Anthony


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