Being An Addict Of Carolina Golf

[Sean_A]

As it happens...it looks like Pinehurst is the place this year.  I just couldn't get a mountain trip organized to my satisfaction.  Still not settled completely on courses but I think one of the Forest Creek courses and Pine Needles are the two front runners.  Thanks again all for help. 


Ciao

You may already know this, but at the end of September, #4 will close for a Gil Hanse renovation.  You might find it interesting for "before and after" purposes to see it as is if you are going to be there before. 

Hanse is going to make #4 look more like #2 (I don't think they are calling the project a "restoration") and the course is scheduled to reopen in April.  Given only a September-to-April closure, I assume that Hanse will be primarily taking out grassed areas and particularly bunkers.  The most recent work on #4 was done by Fazio in 2000; according to the Pinehurst website, he "reimagined" the course, and added (wait for it...) ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY bunkers.  (I nearly threw up typing that last sentence, btw)

AG

I really don't know much about the non #2 Pinehurst courses except that generally folks seem disappointed with them as a group.

Ciao

[Jerry Kluger]

I played Dormie on Sunday and while the greens were kind of slow the course was in amazing condition - best fairways i have seen in the area for a long time, not quite as firm as I would like but you couldn't find a bad lie. Also played Roaring Gap which is tons of fun with some really interesting greens and bunkering - short downhill par 3 number 6 can really break your heart.

[Matt MacIver]

I'd agree on "disappointed" re the other eight Pinehurst resort courses, probably because expectations are so high.  They're all fine courses but nothing special -- the land is mostly flat so the greens on #2 provide the interest, and now, again, the width.  Hopefully #4 will step up since it has some elevation change, and the new short course might turn out to be one of the better options.

[Tim Gavrich]

Have you played Southern Pines, Sean? Might be worth considering.

[Mark Pritchett]

I think you are on the right track with Forest Creek North, Pine Needles, Mid Pines and Southern Pines along with No. 2 not sure why you need to go anywhere else.  I will note I have yet to play CCNC-Dogwood. 

[Carson Pilcher]

I don't understand the 1* 2* numbers. Is that a ranking system? The number of times you played them? Some other numerologist reference?


Are you only interested in the golf, or in the overall value of the area?

Ron...personal recommendation guide

3* = Don't miss for any reason and don't leave the parking the same day looking for another course!  Only seen four so far that I consider in this class...TOC, North Berwick, Sandwich & Merion

2* = Great courses that are great experiences, often of historical significance...plan a significant trip with this course as the centre piece.  Only seen sixteen so far that I consider in this class....Sunny Old, St Enodoc, Kington, Old Town, Palmetto, Lahinch, Ganton, WHO, Prestwick, Deal, Portrush, Muirfield, Hoylake, Birkdale, Kiawah & Pinehurst #2.

1* = Good or great course, sometimes somewhat unusual...worth the hassle of an overnight car detour

R = Worth a significant day trip (drive time no more than it takes to play and have drinks ~5 hours)

r = A good fall back on course/trip filler

NR = Not recommended...can be a very average course or perhaps a good course that is very expensive.

Tom...I will check out Linville and Grandfather...don't know much about them. Is the area nice...good town(s) etc?

Chip...are there cool areas near Myrtle to set up camp for a few days?

ATB...many of the courses are private so I don't know that score.  Certainly many high profile publics charge a premium in the fall and near Easter.

Ciao

Now that I know your ranking system....  Yeamans Hall at a 1!!!???  Maybe I saw a different course than you did.  I only played it "once".  I arrived at the 1st tee planning to play 18 holes, have lunch and then drive to Secession.  Well....I skipped lunch, played 45 holes and did not leave until after dark. 

I have played TOC, North Berwick & Merion.  Yeamans ranks along those lines with me. However, I could see it as a solid 2+.  Oh well, to each their own.CC of Charleston is fun, but I would consider it a "watered down Yeamans".  Still great Raynor architecture, but without the 100 year old live oaks that drip with tradition.

[Sean_A]

Have you played Southern Pines, Sean? Might be worth considering.

Tim

Yes, I played S Pines a few times...good course, but nothing that turned my head in a fairly tough neighbourhood for quality golf. 

Carson

Yes, to each is own.  Yeaman's doesn't blow me away, but I can see why folks love it.  YHC is a cool day out for sure. I would like to play it more because the greens are quite interesting.  1* is a quite a strong score for me so I don't feel as though I am giving YHC the quick shove.

Ciao

[David Davis]

Sean,


My last 10:


Dormie
Tobacco Road
Mid Pines
Southern Pines (8 holes and visual tour of the rest)
CCNC Dogwood
Roaring Gap
Old Town
CCNC Cardinal
Pinehurst #2
Pine Needles




Your best bets there, I think you've played them all before. Roaring Gap and Old Town Club make an awesome 36 hole day, both are way more fun than #2 (6 hour round this time)


Pine Needles has been renovated a fair bit, it's fun and worth a play. Mid Pines is great. CCNC courses are nice country club tracks with fast greens. Tobacco Road and Dormie both in great shape now.

[Sean_A]

David

Old Town & The Gap on the same day?  You are a sick man.  Seek help immediately.

What did you think of the CCNC courses?

Ciao

[David Davis]

David

Old Town & The Gap on the same day?  You are a sick man.  Seek help immediately.

What did you think of the CCNC courses?

Ciao

Sean, most people will take a cart at The Gap. I've walked it once and this time took a cart to save energy for walking Old Town in 90 degree heat. As you know there are pretty serious hills there. Going up I have no problem with however, walking all the way down kills my knees so not worth it for me to try and walk 36 (plus my daughter was with me as well, easier to bribe her as chauffeur with added fun of driving the cart than trying to get her to climb the hills and not complain). So even though we played 36 holes it felt like 18 given the cart assistance.


I like both the CCNC courses, they are high end country club, perfect manicured courses though knowing your tastes you will be less than charmed I'd guess. Basically length and fast greens are what protects them. Throw in some ponds etc. Both tree lined and consisting of mostly gentle but some more severe elevation changes.


Aesthetically looking clean and more "Augusta" like than say the others on the list. I would say Doak 4's maybe Dogwood could squeeze out a 5.


The bonus is that they are empty compared to the other courses so rounds take half the time and maintain their flow.

[Steve Lang]

   SA


Have you considered roaming slightly up to play Strantz' Tot Hill Farm, since you've previously played Tobacco Road?  Haven't played it for many many years, and have no idea of its status, but it was memorable like mountain golf, much more so that the fairway canter left or right uphill downhill dogleg stuff all over the Moore County Sand Hills domain. 


CCNC like a Wendy's double or triple burger...  enjoyable, you will be filled if not fulfilled..


Playing Ross is safe, perhaps just Maples.. certainly not a bad formula, since you want to see and experience different things


ps I had a 25 yr addiction, 10 yrs sober now,  so good luck with that... i may need to fall off the wagon this fall

[Jay Mickle]

As it happens...it looks like Pinehurst is the place this year.  I just couldn't get a mountain trip organized to my satisfaction.  Still not settled completely on courses but I think one of the Forest Creek courses and Pine Needles are the two front runners.  Thanks again all for help.
Ciao

Sean,
Kyle Franz is doing great work at Pine Needles, not the complete overhaul that he did at Mid Pines but significant none the less. It remains tamer than MP but with much added character and some great pin positions that add some strategy that it had lacked. Some changes to the greens have eliminated many of the long straight putts and the new Bermuda greens are maturing into firm yet receptive targets.

[Carson Pilcher]

Have you played Southern Pines, Sean? Might be worth considering.

Tim

Yes, I played S Pines a few times...good course, but nothing that turned my head in a fairly tough neighbourhood for quality golf. 

Carson

Yes, to each is own.  Yeaman's doesn't blow me away, but I can see why folks love it.  YHC is a cool day out for sure. I would like to play it more because the greens are quite interesting.  1* is a quite a strong score for me so I don't feel as though I am giving YHC the quick shove.

Ciao

Fair enough, and I respect your opinion.

[Greg Holland]

You should consider the Piedmont Triad -- pretty close to Pinehurst area, and some good to very good courses:  Old Town, Forsyth CC  and Tanglewood (74 PGA) in Winston; and Sedgefield CC, Greensboro CC, Starmount Forest CC, Forest Oaks and the Cardinal in Greensboro (plus Bryan Park, Oak Hollow and other public courses).  Strantz's Tot Hill Farm is not far, High Point CC has a solid course.  Grandover Resort has 2 pretty good courses by Panks & Graham.  Old North State is scenic Fazio.  Alamance CC is another Ross in Burlington.  Deep Springs in Stoneville is a good Ellis Maples course. 

[Sean_A]

Steve

I never really gave Tot Hill Farm much thought.  I guess the polarizing opinions haven't attracted me.  Plus, I have never seen pix that I can recall.  I often play courses or not based on pix. 

Greg

I would like to see Sedgefield at some point and it ties in well with Old Town.  I have seen Old Town a few times now, but I am hestitant to knock on that door again.  Sometimes its best to count your blessings...but my oh my is Old Town cool...solid Happy 100 top 10. 

The Carolinas is deep for golf...I keep telling Ran this be he has homer blinders.

Ciao

[Will Spivey]

Steve

I never really gave Tot Hill Farm much thought.  I guess the polarizing opinions haven't attracted me.  Plus, I have never seen pix that I can recall.  I often play courses or not based on pix. 

Greg

I would like to see Sedgefield at some point and it ties in well with Old Town.  I have seen Old Town a few times now, but I am hestitant to knock on that door again.  Sometimes its best to count your blessings...but my oh my is Old Town cool...solid Happy 100 top 10. 

The Carolinas is deep for golf...I keep telling Ran this be he has homer blinders.

Ciao

Sean, my man, you are welcome at OTC any time!


As for Tot Hill Farm, I once did a photo shoot there (was in the ad business). They offered me a free round and I passed. Now, this was before I had developed any interest in GCA, but it was just ridiculous. I like Tobacco Road (once a year), but Tot Hill? No thanks.

[Matt MacIver]

Tot Hill is a roller coaster - I've never been on a more hilly course.  Walked the front nine and couldn't muster the energy do walk the back.  Heavily wooded so the holes all stand alone, you don't see any other golfers - they probably don't have a full tee sheet often anyway given the location.  I remember the par 3s very well, one on the front parallels a stream and is unique and awesome, as well as too hard.  Very glad I played it and would do so again, if it was closer and it wasn't a big world with other courses to see.  Tobacco Road is better, I guess because the angles and greens but Tot Hill is worth a shot.  I played it at Tanglewood the same day - they couldn't be more different. 

[A.G._Crockett]

I understand fully the divergence in opinions about Strantz courses, I truly do.  That said, I can't imagine anyone with a true interest in GCA not wanting to see as much of his work as they possibly can.

Which brings me to Tot Hill Farm.  I've played there many times, including once in the Mike Strantz memorial tournament that raises money for the Hollings Cancer Center.  I love the golf course, and I have a really hard time connecting to some of the negative comments here.  It isn't as good as some of his other courses simply because the site isn't as good; as mentioned, it is very hilly (located in the ancient Uwharrie mountains), and there are lots of huge boulders scattered around that I doubt could have been moved at any sort of reasonable cost.  I've walked it, but I don't think I'd want to do so often, and like most Strantz courses, I'm not sure I'd want to play it three times a week.  That's Strantz, for better or for worse.

But it's art, and its fun, and it's unique, and it's unforgettable, and it's also VERY affordable and public.  That combination of traits is damn hard to come by, and I love the place.  That folks who purport to be about appreciating GCA wouldn't even want to see the course is very, very tough for me to understand.

Tot Hill will never make a Top 100 list, but neither will a lot of the other courses that have been mentioned in this thread and that are, IMO, completely forgettable.  Sean, don't listen to those who haven't played the place, ok?  I know that you "get" Strantz, and if it fits your trip, go and see it, at least one time.  It'll cost you around $40, and you'll see a really cool collection of holes on a very tough site, done by a guy who won't be doing any more courses. 

EDIT:  Sean, I don't mean to say that in all of the Pinehurst/Triangle/Triad area and the multitude of good golf available, that Tot Hill is the first (or even a Top 10?) selection; it isn't.  I'm just put off by the idea that it somehow isn't worth a look.  Plus, you aren't dealing with access issues or budget issues.  And while it wouldn't be my first choice for a one-and-done round in the area, I'd for sure pick it over yet another Fazio, or even another Ross that I had already seen. 

[Brian Finn]

I understand fully the divergence in opinions about Strantz courses, I truly do.  That said, I can't imagine anyone with a true interest in GCA not wanting to see as much of his work as they possibly can.

Which brings me to Tot Hill Farm.  I've played there many times, including once in the Mike Strantz memorial tournament that raises money for the Hollings Cancer Center.  I love the golf course, and I have a really hard time connecting to some of the negative comments here.  It isn't as good as some of his other courses simply because the site isn't as good; as mentioned, it is very hilly (located in the ancient Uwharrie mountains), and there are lots of huge boulders scattered around that I doubt could have been moved at any sort of reasonable cost.  I've walked it, but I don't think I'd want to do so often, and like most Strantz courses, I'm not sure I'd want to play it three times a week.  That's Strantz, for better or for worse.

But it's art, and its fun, and it's unique, and it's unforgettable, and it's also VERY affordable and public.  That combination of traits is damn hard to come by, and I love the place.  That folks who purport to be about appreciating GCA wouldn't even want to see the course is very, very tough for me to understand.

Tot Hill will never make a Top 100 list, but neither will a lot of the other courses that have been mentioned in this thread and that are, IMO, completely forgettable.  Sean, don't listen to those who haven't played the place, ok?  I know that you "get" Strantz, and if it fits your trip, go and see it, at least one time.  It'll cost you around $40, and you'll see a really cool collection of holes on a very tough site, done by a guy who won't be doing any more courses. 

EDIT:  Sean, I don't mean to say that in all of the Pinehurst/Triangle/Triad area and the multitude of good golf available, that Tot Hill is the first (or even a Top 10?) selection; it isn't.  I'm just put off by the idea that it somehow isn't worth a look.  Plus, you aren't dealing with access issues or budget issues.  And while it wouldn't be my first choice for a one-and-done round in the area, I'd for sure pick it over yet another Fazio, or even another Ross that I had already seen.

Great post.  I strongly agree with every word.  You expressed my view better than I could have.  Thank you.

[Sean_A]

AG

I am strongly drawn to unusual courses and like Tobacco Road and Bulls Bay.  As it happens, I am now happily committed to playing Pine Needles so the 2nd course for the trip needs to be nearby. Maybe Tot Hill will be a goer in the future.  Thanks for your post.

Will..thank you!

Ciao

[Tom Fagerli]

Sean- then cross Midland Rd and play MidPines. It never gets old.