News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« on: August 24, 2016, 10:57:35 AM »
http://https://www.flickr.com/photos/29866725@N06/sets/72157624063259157/show/

Above flicker photo show of the Oly venue for Tokyo, 2020.   We will certainly have a contrast of styles of design architecture between Gil's sandbelt, little rough, large varied options abound and surround green sites, and this old Allison - Fazio remodelled course where it seems a flat tree lined, narrow FW, Rivieraesque greens bunkered, high rough, sleek venue.

So, has anyone played Ksaumigaseki?  Since likely no one has played either Rio or Kasumigaseki, we will have to do GCA critique via photos...  ::) ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 11:27:58 AM »
I think I read the new version will do away with the small extra greens that made up the 2-green system.

Would love to play in Japan someday...the non-golf aspects of Japan are awesome!
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2016, 11:40:04 AM »
I've played Kasumigaseki, before the changes ... I don't know that it's been opened again yet after the work.  Yes, they will do away with the two-green system which was a distraction; they already had done so on their West course.


The East course is one of the most prestigious in Japan -- the club is a bit like Oakland Hills or Winged Foot, with lots of important business people in the membership.  It's also prestigious because it "was" one of the only courses where Alison actually was present for some of the work -- Tokyo Golf Club next door was relocated from another location after the war, so it isn't really Alison's.  Now, I guess, they've traded that prestige for Olympic prestige.


The rough was not high at all when I played it, but I'm sure they will lean more in that direction for an event, since it is not a long course and I don't think they had too much room to lengthen it.  [They had looked at borrowing a couple of holes from the West course to add length, as at Brookline, but I think they decided not to do so.]  But, remember, not everyone playing in the Olympics is used to such courses, and I don't think they want to embarrass the bottom half of the field.  Mostly, it's a parkland course with relatively small greens and deep green side bunkering, unless Mr. Fazio has changed the green sizes -- he is always wary about making his greens too small.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 12:36:42 PM »
With the disadvantage of only viewing this Flicker slide show, it seems to me that the only ways to set up such a course resistance to scoring is grassing lines/rough, narrowing the flatish FWs, and speed on greens.  If they leave it heavily treed as it appears, there doesn't really appear to be much playing options except a game of lawn darts, no?

That with what I think must be a pretty wet climate, could also lend towards soft lawn dart conditions.   Perhaps players will love it.  ::)

I'll take a course like Rio for enjoyment of viewing such competitions, every time.   ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 01:08:15 PM »
I was there in April of this year in the afternoon of a lovely day after a nice round at Tokyo Golf Club. With a well respected honorary member of the club, we only wanted to do a look-see and determine how the progress was. I believe our visit was pre-arranged as well. We were met by the manager and head green keeper and invited for tee. On strict orders from Mr. Fazio we were not allowed to even take a look at the course. While I have met Mr. Fazio, I believe his presence at the site has been minimal after he somehow managed to win the job, someone may correct me here but I believe it was then handed down to his son. I can't honestly imagine if this is true how this resonates with the whole honor system that is prevalent in Japan.


My heart says the wrong architect was entrusted with this important job and that's not just me being disappointed I didn't get to view the progress. I hope the right shapers and team will be used given the very important place this course has for Japanese golf.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 02:22:28 PM »
Maybe it's because of the Fazio influence but the green sites look very "Pine Valley" to me.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 02:46:59 PM »
Maybe it's because of the Fazio influence but the green sites look very "Pine Valley" to me.


Alison built the left green on #9 at Pine Valley, and built all the original green sites at Kasumigaseki, too, although I don't know how many are left intact.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2016, 04:11:41 PM »
Doing work outside of North America is rare for Fazio, isn't it?

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2016, 04:49:23 PM »
With the disadvantage of only viewing this Flicker slide show, it seems to me that the only ways to set up such a course resistance to scoring is grassing lines/rough, narrowing the flatish FWs, and speed on greens. 

Isn't that what the USGA mostly did at Merion for the Open a few years ago? 

Greg Gilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2016, 05:25:34 PM »
I also had the pleasure of playing here, albeit around 5 years ago. I echo many of Tom & David's comments. This is clearly a very prestigious club with a discerning membership & great facilities. I know the club is greatly honoured by the rights to host the event. Kasumagasecki is (for Japan) a "big" place. Lots of land given the space needed for 36 holes. I suspect that capacity was a big + in their bid.

The East Course is a lovely walk through immaculate fairways and , especially, the highly groomed trees - none of which impede too greatly on play. As mentioned above, the removal of the second greens will be a positive. After you overcome the original novelty, they become a real distraction. This course will certainly provide a different challenge to Rio. I guess its going to be more of a typically prescriptive US Open challenge rather than the options offered up by Mr Hanse's course.

Like others I find the choice of architect "curious". I suspect the decision makers valued the prestige they believe the Fazio name will bring?

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2016, 02:37:42 PM »
Doing work outside of North America is rare for Fazio, isn't it?


It was. But he has been open to work outside N. America since at least 2008-2009 when I met him for a project that never materialized. I believe family dynamics now allow him more time for this.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kasumigaseki C.C. 2020 Toyko Olys. Too soon?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2016, 09:08:55 PM »
And the dearth of opportunities in NA may also add to that.