[Don Mahaffey]

I have a complaint, and that is bunkers built so that the ball rolls up against the low side lip leaving the player with no shot.

Maybe it is because the bunkers are incorrectly located by the architect and the shaper doesn't want to build up the low side and "cupping" the bunker so the ball will roll back away from the edge and end up in a flattish spot where the player can still have a shot.
Building up that lower side sometimes requires a lot of dirt, and it may becomes obvious you "worked" there and that seems to be the cardinal sin.  I know the argument is "don't hit it there", but if a bunker is flashed up to the side of the green and the land is falling away from the green, the shaper has to make some consideration for the fact you are building a feature meant to be played out of, and that requires cupping the low side so the ball doesn't roll tight against the low side lip. 

[Garland Bayley]

It seems to me that high handicappers take what they get and low handicappers file complaints like this.

[Tom_Doak]

No doubt there are many young shaper/designers who are trying to make their mark. And building really cool looking bunkers seems to be one way to make a name.
But, I have a complaint, and that is seeing so many bunkers built so that the ball rolls up against the low side lip leaving the player with no shot.
Maybe it is because the bunkers are incorrectly located by the architect and the shaper doesn't want to build up the low side and "cupping" the bunker so the ball will roll back away from the edge and end up in a flattish spot where the player can still have a shot.   Building up that lower side sometimes requires a lot of dirt, and it may becomes obvious you "worked" there and that seems to be the cardinal sin among the up and comers.  I know the argument is "don't hit it there", but if a bunker is flashed up to the side of the green and the land is falling away from the green, the shaper has to make some consideration for the fact you are building a feature meant to be played out of, and that requires cupping the low side so the ball doesn't roll tight against the low side lip.

I'm just curious how often this has happened to you in the past 12 months.

[Don Mahaffey]

Tom,

I first noticed this last year when I visited a golden age course after a restoration. There was a green over a bunker that sloped away, with native beyond. I wasn't playing but my guide was a member and he showed me the issue and we tossed a few balls and they ended up dead against the low side. The bunker has since been rebuilt.

What set me off is a more recent example where the bunker is right of the green, sloping away, with a creek and native to the right. The bunker was shapped with very slight cupping and very little build up of the low side lip. I didn't hit my ball there but it was obvious that being left with no shot was very possible. This bunker is being re built.

I've edited my initial post as it is obvious I over stated the issue, but I am curios if this is something you have seen?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in the UK they slope the sand so the ball doesn't run tight against the sod wall, right? And while you may have to play away from the hole, you can still play.

[Rob Marshall]

It seems to me that high handicappers take what they get and low handicappers file complaints like this.

As a low handicapper i agree...... When I miss a green I would like to have the opportunity to save par with a well played shot. I would think that the architect designs bunkers with that in mind. Sometimes the inherent breaks of the game don't allow that.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Yeah, I only can recall low handicappers crying out "I got no shot!"

Only one architect I know who builds them that way.....I have never met him, but everyone in that situation seems to be mad at "Dat Effin" golf course architect.......he must have designed nearly every course on earth, from my reckoning.

[Garland Bayley]

High handicappers have no shot so often it doesn't make sense to say I have no shot.

[Thomas Dai]

[size=78%].[/size]..requires cupping the low side so the ball doesn't roll tight against the low side lip.

[size=78%]


Don,


The club where I play most often (UK parkland) have had this issue and have have done a couple of things - firstly, made the bunker faces more vertical, so balls entering the bunker from the top run a shorter distance within the bunker and are thus less likely to run up against the back edge and secondly, hand rake the bunkers such that the centre of the bunker still has rake furrows but then finish the raking by turning the rake head over and using the non-toothed side to smooth down any furrow marks so balls are inclinded to run away from bunker edges. Seems to help.


As per your original post though, if the back edge/lip has too greater internal slope leading into it not much is going to help.


Which takes me on a tangent - is there too much over-shaping and over-finishing?


Atb[/size]

[jeffwarne]

I just hate it when the water is so deep I can't hit the ball from the hazard directly to the pin

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