Anyone played the newly renovated (Pete Dye) Ackerman Allen Course at Purdue?

[Richard Hetzel]

At the end of the month I am meeting another GCA member at Purdue for a 36 hole day. I know that another Indiana Bill Diddel course has been erased by Mr. Dye (that's a good thing!) and I was wondering if anyone here has played the new Ackerman Allen Course at Purdue in West Lafayette, Indiana. We play the Kampen Course in the morning and Ackerman Allen in the afternoon. What should we expect? Discuss.

[Nigel Islam]

At the end of the month I am meeting another GCA member at Purdue for a 36 hole day. I know that another Indiana Bill Diddel course has been erased by Mr. Dye (that's a good thing!) and I was wondering if anyone here has played the new Ackerman Allen Course at Purdue in West Lafayette, Indiana. We play the Kampen Course in the morning and Ackerman Allen in the afternoon. What should we expect? Discuss.

Richard,


I am curious as to why you say that it is a good thing? 

[Richard Hetzel]

At the end of the month I am meeting another GCA member at Purdue for a 36 hole day. I know that another Indiana Bill Diddel course has been erased by Mr. Dye (that's a good thing!) and I was wondering if anyone here has played the new Ackerman Allen Course at Purdue in West Lafayette, Indiana. We play the Kampen Course in the morning and Ackerman Allen in the afternoon. What should we expect? Discuss.

Richard,


I am curious as to why you say that it is a good thing?

In my experience, anything that Pete Dye changes on a Diddel course will be an improvement. I am not slighting Bill at all here, he did what he could with what he had to work with during his time, but things have come a long way since then. Here is an example: the old course at Fort Ben Harrison back in 1987 when i was stationed there is not even close to the reworked Fort that exists in it's present form today. I have played quite a few Diddel courses and they are OK, just not modern enough for me I guess. Maybe I need to play some more, a few that I still need to experience are Western Hills CC, and Kenwood CC that are nearby. Miami View was fun, Sharon Woods GC is OK, Clovernook was OK, and Still Meadow CC (AKA Royal Oak CC, et al), California GC, Indian Valley (NLE), Western Row GC (NLE) are/were terrible at best. Neuman, Reeves, Potter Park, Twin Run, Twin Base, and Winton Woods were average at best and that might be a stretch. I guess I have played almost all of his courses around southwest Ohio with the exception of a few. There is nothing striking about them. I am sure there are few around the US that are much better than my sampling.

[PThomas]

Traditional looking, low key Pete Dye effort

[Nigel Islam]

I think Clovernook is a Langford/Moreau offering.


I certainly agree that Dye redoing The Fort and building Brickyard were positive changes. I guess I'm a little sensitive to Diddel courses since he designed 30% of the remaining 18 holers here in Evansville. He had a lot of low budget affairs that brought the game to a lot of people. You could compare Dye's William Sahm course to Diddel's work and realize that with similar constraints Dye didn't do any better.

[Richard Hetzel]

Traditional looking, low key Pete Dye effort

Was that due to budget constraints or that was the intended goal (low key)?

[Richard Hetzel]

I think Clovernook is a Langford/Moreau offering.


I certainly agree that Dye redoing The Fort and building Brickyard were positive changes. I guess I'm a little sensitive to Diddel courses since he designed 30% of the remaining 18 holers here in Evansville. He had a lot of low budget affairs that brought the game to a lot of people. You could compare Dye's William Sahm course to Diddel's work and realize that with similar constraints Dye didn't do any better.

Ooops! Diddel renovated Clovernook, I mixed that up! Oh gosh totally forgot about the Brickyard, and I love that place for some odd reason. Have not set foot on Sahm, in Fishers right? As far as bringing the game to the masses, I think Diddel probably doesn't get the credit he deserves, agreed. Maybe I need to visit Evansville!

[Ron Smith]

I played both Kampen and Ackerman on July 30th and can say it is a great improvement over the original design.  The course needs another year of grow in, but played really well.  The tree clearing has really opened up some of the old holes including the now 2nd hole.  The greens are night and day from the Diddle design, larger and more undulating.  They played better than Kampen as they were fast and firm.

My only complaint was the introduction of a few blind tee shots that had hidden hazards, both resulted in lost balls in our group and seemed like it would dramatically slow down pace on a crowded afternoon.  The two new holes are good, more links style than the other holes, but still fit with the course.  The two courses are a great compliment to each other and I felt the Ackerman course was more open and forgiving than Kampen, recovery around the green was also easier at Ackerman.  Surprisingly the Ackerman course is now longer than Kampen from the tips!

[Criss Titschinger]

In my experience, anything that Pete Dye changes on a Diddel course will be an improvement. I am not slighting Bill at all here, he did what he could with what he had to work with during his time, but things have come a long way since then. Here is an example: the old course at Fort Ben Harrison back in 1987 when i was stationed there is not even close to the reworked Fort that exists in it's present form today. I have played quite a few Diddel courses and they are OK, just not modern enough for me I guess. Maybe I need to play some more, a few that I still need to experience are Western Hills CC, and Kenwood CC that are nearby. Miami View was fun, Sharon Woods GC is OK, Clovernook was OK, and Still Meadow CC (AKA Royal Oak CC, et al), California GC, Indian Valley (NLE), Western Row GC (NLE) are/were terrible at best. Neuman, Reeves, Potter Park, Twin Run, Twin Base, and Winton Woods were average at best and that might be a stretch. I guess I have played almost all of his courses around southwest Ohio with the exception of a few. There is nothing striking about them. I am sure there are few around the US that are much better than my sampling.

The original layout at Western Hills was Tom Bendelow, though Diddel did some renovation work. At this point, I'm not sure what's original, what's Diddel, and what's new, as I know they did some renovation in the last 20 years. According to Diddel's site, he did some renovation work at Clovernook, though I'm not sure what he did.

I'm trying to imagine what a Dye renovation at Miami View would look like. Maybe some railroad ties on the drop shot par 3 11th?

Woodland CC in Carmel is another Diddel that was renovated by Dye, and everything I hear about that course is all good.

Back to the original topic, it seems I might be doing a 36 hole day at Purdue next month before the Mashie. I haven't played either course before, so I'll be going in with a fresh perspective.

[Josh Tarble]

Criss,

I love the Kampen course.  It's really good, if it were in Indy rather than West Lafayette if would challenge for tops in the state.  I haven't played many university courses either, but I think it could be one of the best college courses in the country as well. Look forward to hearing your thoughts at the Mashie.

As far as the Diddel/Dye renovations go...I can't imagine any place Dye wouldn't improve.  I've played several Diddle courses in Indy and they're all fine, if not boring.  Very uninspired routings and greens.  Not saying they all don't have some good holes but for the most part they are quite average.

[PThomas]

Traditional looking, low key Pete Dye effort

Was that due to budget constraints or that was the intended goal (low key)?

Not sure Richard

[Jason Thurman]

I love the Kampen course.  It's really good, if it were in Indy rather than West Lafayette if would challenge for tops in the state.  I haven't played many university courses either, but I think it could be one of the best college courses in the country as well. Look forward to hearing your thoughts at the Mashie.

Agreed. It's The Fort, The Trophy Club, Harrison Hills, and Kampen vying for the top spot on my list of Indiana publics. I'd also rate it above both Colbert Hills and University Ridge, which are both fairly well regarded college courses in the non-Yale division.

[Richard Hetzel]

Well, I love The Fort and The Trophy Club, and have yet to play Harrison Hills. I have played Ohio State, and the Univesity of Michigan's golf course (and Michigan State, but that won't even come close) so I am excited to play the Kampen Course. I need to check out Harrison Hills as well. If I had another day, I would squeeze in Harrison Hills and Coyote Crossing.

[Chris_Blakely]

At the end of the month I am meeting another GCA member at Purdue for a 36 hole day. I know that another Indiana Bill Diddel course has been erased by Mr. Dye (that's a good thing!) and I was wondering if anyone here has played the new Ackerman Allen Course at Purdue in West Lafayette, Indiana. We play the Kampen Course in the morning and Ackerman Allen in the afternoon. What should we expect? Discuss.

Have you played the old Ackerman Hills course?  I like the layout and thought it juxtaposed well to the course across the street as a fun parkland layout!

Chris

[Richard Hetzel]

At the end of the month I am meeting another GCA member at Purdue for a 36 hole day. I know that another Indiana Bill Diddel course has been erased by Mr. Dye (that's a good thing!) and I was wondering if anyone here has played the new Ackerman Allen Course at Purdue in West Lafayette, Indiana. We play the Kampen Course in the morning and Ackerman Allen in the afternoon. What should we expect? Discuss.

Have you played the old Ackerman Hills course?  I like the layout and thought it juxtaposed well to the course across the street as a fun parkland layout!

Chris

Chris,


I have never played the old version, but I am looking forward to the renovated, and newly named Ackerman-Allen Course, as well as Kampen. It should be a great day of golf!

[Jon Heise]

Kampen was a great place, probably the most Pete Dye looking Pete Dye course I've played (only like 6, but still).  Very enjoyable and a great test.  The Purdue ladies team following us had many less issues with the challenges that we did.  The Ackerman course however was an A+ in my book.  Many sweeping undulations, interesting and memorable holes.  Tight, but playable.  The college aged dudes playing with us slinging it 330 from the 7500 tees had no issues with it either...  I really love those two course complexes that offer two very different golf experiences.  Would very much like to get back someday.  I'm sure Rich will follow up with some snaps.

[Richard Hetzel]

I am very glad that I played the Kampen Course first because the Ackerman-Allen Course is that much better. Obviously these are two totally different golf courses design wise, but if I had 10 rounds at Purdue, I would play the newly renovated (Dye) Ackerman-Allen course 9 times, and would probably drag my feet at playing Kampen when I got to that 10th round. Which is ironic as I was amped up about the Kampen course, but not for the Ackerman-Allen Course. I was wrong. It's a great place for a 36 hole day and I highly suggest if you are nearby Purdue, play there. Even with all the extra room off the tee, the Kampen Course remains the more difficult test of the two golf courses. Whatever Bill Diddel was still there probably pales in comparison to what is actually there now. I would like to see what of the Diddel course was lost in the renovation. I'll have to dig up some old aerials for comparison's sake. Here are a few iPhone pics to hold you over.

[Erik Mosley]

Here's an article about Pete Dye's role in the renovation from Gold and Black Illustrated (Purdue's sports mag).  It's from a year ago, but there's some pretty interesting stuff in there - had no idea Larry Packard had his hands on it at one point.

When I was there, I loved Kampen, but never went out of my way to play the old Ackerman.  Kampen was dirt cheap for a student to play a high quality and VERY interesting course.  Ackerman, on the other hand, wasn't in nearly as good of shape and had the feeling of a "Fraternity Golf Outing" course - if you wanted to play a round with your non-golfing buddies, you went there.

Very excited to check out the new Ackerman - wondering if it'll be open on football game days...will surely be much more entertaining than watching the team play!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_mPQvfAONnpeTV6OTMxbXJYbW8/

[Richard Hetzel]

The answer to your question is NO, they are not open during home football games. I asked the question when I was arranging our all day play tee time a few weeks ago. You may not want to play Kampen after playing the new Ackerman-Allen course. 

[Anthony_Nysse]

The answer to your question is NO, they are not open during home football games. I asked the question when I was arranging our all day play tee time a few weeks ago. You may not want to play Kampen after playing the new Ackerman-Allen course. 

They still park on the course in the rough for games. It was an important point to the redesign.