The Loop profile posted under Courses by Country

[Ran Morrissett]

There was a Sirius radio discussion last Friday that raised the question if reviews were even relevant in this new age. The subject revolved around a just released movie, Suicide Squad that my children (tragically) want to see. The Wall Street Journal called it trash. On Sirius, they discussed the WSJ review, with one person quipping, 'Do you think that even one person who intends on seeing this movie reads the WSJ?!' The point of mentioning this is ... I wonder how worthwhile early reviews (like this one) are of The Loop?!
 
Most people will play the Red Course once and the Black Course once and then start typing. That's how it is these days -  blast in and blast out. Lost in the shuffle could be quiet, intelligent designs such as Royal Worlington, Woking, Wolf Point and here. Places that don't offer flashy hazards, views of big bodies of water or other attributes that make them easy to photograph may suffer in this digital age. Nuanced experiences that require time and rounds to noodle over are STILL something to be cherished in our sport, yes?

With nothing to compare The Loop to and being on property less than 24 hours, a review has a dangerous chance of underestimating what was accomplished. That is true of all great designs but it is doubly true here. Cliché or not, The Old Course is the Queen of such golf. Rounds upon rounds need to be played over her to scratch the surface of her attributes.
 
I am still twisting things around in mind, wondering about this and that three weeks after playing The Loop. For certain, the place is prettier than I imagined: sandy soil, fescue grasses and quiet. Also, the land has more movement than advertised. Trying to compare the Black to the Red makes my head hurt. Tom doesn't even bother; he thinks of The Loop as one entity. That simplifies things and might also help one understand that it's on a different plane, something that doesn’t occur often in our staid sport.
 

Tom Doak puts in perspective – simultaneously - the bank to the left of Red 12 and short of Black 6. Such architecture is highly effective without screaming at the golfer.
 
The irony is that the architecture isn’t in your face while the project (on the surface, at least) was daring. It must have been a Rubik's Cube to get each green built to accept shots from two different directions and have par work out satisfactorily. How impressive is the effort? Very, so hats off to Tom and Brian Slawnik, Brian Schneider, Eric Iverson, and Angela Moser.
 
Heading up there, I appreciated  the obvious benefits to the savvy owner of such a concept. My one reservation was this: could a single (conventional) 18 hole course have emerged that was superior to what happened? Having seen it, I would say the answer is ‘no’ as both 18 holes are rife with fun golf with great holes sprinkled evenly throughout. I have a feeling that time will likely mark this innovative endeavor as something even greater than the sum of its parts. Indeed, more than any course I can think of, I look forward to reading reviews of this place 10 and 20 years from now.

Time - and lots of rounds - will help verify just how special what occurred here is. One thing is for sure: others will try something similar and it will make you appreciate The Loop all the more.

Here is the link:

http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/the-loop/

Best,

[Jeff Bergeron]

Great write up Ran! Can't wait to play the Loop.

[John Kirk]

Hi Ran.  I liked this profile very much.  Though concise, it's dense with detailed analysis.

What I didn't expect was the beauty of the fairway contours.  It looks quite pretty.

[Thomas Dai]

Fascinating. Quite simply, I would like to play The Loop in both directions.
Atb

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Ran -- I didn't end up playing the Loop this summer as I'd hope to, but it looks to be even more my cup of tea than I'd imagined.

I was struck by the way Brian Schneider described the process of conceptualizing/designing the greens -- and I thought to myself: that's a process that could/should be used for ALL greens, everywhere.

It's a process that apparently (from your pictures and descriptions) creates greens that are both meaningfully contoured as well as seemingly random. What a delightful and truly "golfy" characteristic.

Peter   

[Bill_McBride]

If you play the Red and the Black the same day, would that be the Stendahl Course?

[Jim Franklin]

I just got back from playing The Loop and, quite frankly, was blown away. I played the Black first and the Red the next day. All but one pin was in the same location which was really cool. Playing the Red, I kept visualizing how I played the Black the day before. After two holes, my caddie said just treat it like a new course and forget about how you played yesterday. I played pretty well after that. It really is amazing that the courses, while looking the same, play differently. I loved it and can't wait to see how it matures.

The fairways are a little thin, but that was expected and not an issue. The greens were fun too. They were firm and you had to think where you wanted the ball to land in order to get it close. They had a Wolf Point firmness to them (maybe not that firm), but it really was a lot of fun. I can't wait to get back.

[Angela Moser]

Wow! I can't wait to get back and play the course... really nice to hear so many positive words and opinions after putting so many thought and sweat into the ground.
Best from Germany,
Angela

[Eric_Terhorst]

 Thanks for the review Ran.  I have played the Loop 4 times in each direction this summer and can attest you’re correct that there is no way to appreciate it all in two rounds over two days.  Nevertheless I think it will be great fun for visitors to try and take it all in, meanwhile enjoying the walk, quiet, and most of all the playing challenges.  In that last feature with emphasis on the ground game, the Loop is entirely different from Weiskopf’s Forest Dunes, and that differentiation is now an additional enticement to make a visit to the resort. 



For me the course is definitely settling in my mind as “a tale of 18 greens.”  The second time around part of the charm is realizing “Oh I remember this one” in response to a green that you’ve seen before, even if you are now playing a par 4 from the east where yesterday you were southbound playing a par 3.  With additional plays you start to think about  how best to navigate each green, perhaps having been scarred a couple of times by getting out of position on approach. 



The greens mentioned in Ran’s review are good examples—Red 2/Black 16, Red 12/Black 6, and Red 14/Black 4 all are standouts, getting your attention the first time around.  If you’re not careful from either direction, you can post a big number mucking up play approaching or playing around the greens. 
Red 7/Black 11 is another one.  Red 7, a short (362/319) par 4, looks pretty straightforward from the tee, but you learn it’s best to be left of center off the tee.  From there you view a green that is narrow in width and long, with a depression and pot bunker on the right.  You tend to favor the left, but up-n-down on this undulating green is not easy if you miss left.  The Black 11 is a longer  (414/397) par 4 with that pot bunker and depression in the middle of your view of a green that is narrow in width and wide.  A lone pine troubles the entrance to the right of this green, so to leave your approach on the green, you must thread the gap between the bunker and the tree and somehow roll it up on that narrow green—I haven’t come close.  Perhaps a tiger player could hope to hit a high shot over that bunker and stop it on the green.  The rest of us are going to miss it more often than not and have a science project to work out in the up-n-down attempt. One of my favorite greens on the course. 



The Loop is also “a tale of two nines.”  Going out on the  Red and coming in on the Black, you play a par 36 that includes the familiar mix of two par 5s, two 3s and five 4s.  Those two nines I have found  most difficult.  The Red starts out with a partially blind tee shot at number 1, a meandering fairway on which it’s hard to get your bearings at number 2, and a narrow driving zone at 3.   Similarly there are tough stretches on the Black.  Black 13^th and Black 14^th are tough as Ran has noted, then you have a long par 3 15^th and the long Black 16^th  (428/393) with the Biarritz green, on which you simply cannot expect to hold a long approach.  Plan on missing the green and figuring it out.


Playing out on the Black and in on the Red, you play a par 34 with one par 5 and 3 par 3s.  Definitely you feel a psychological difference--you can be 5 over and break 40.  I will admit to (so far) having more fun on this nine and feeling like I am working harder on the the other nine. 



I like all the greens, though, and enjoy playing them in both directions—great work Tom!
 

[George Pazin]

If you play the Red and the Black the same day, would that be the Stendahl Course?

Beard pulling humo(u)r at its finest, well done!


This course seemingly comes very close to my own ideas on the game and its wonderful playing fields. It's right up there with Wolf Point and Sheep Ranch at the top of my wish list. And it's within driving range, unlike the other two.


Damn good stuff.

[Steve Lang]

If you play the Red and the Black the same day, would that be the Stendahl Course?

Beard pulling humo(u)r at its finest, well done!

This course seemingly comes very close to my own ideas on the game and its wonderful playing fields. It's right up there with Wolf Point and Sheep Ranch at the top of my wish list. And it's within driving range, unlike the other two.

Damn good stuff.

George, ditto on Bill's classic humor... drive up from P-town and play it with us next week! 

[Peter Pallotta]

I keep returning to Ran's review. Simply put, none of Tom's other courses that I've ever read about and admired through photos seems to me as much a *summation* of all his/his team's skill set and experience as The Loop, as much a *revisioning* of all the work that's come before.  For such a quiet course it sures *says* a lot. I can't put my finger on why, and I'm just about the least qualified person around here to even try; but it sure *feels* like something special.
Peter

Edit: some great modern art, with its expansive forms and bold colours, invites you to lose yourself (or find yourself) in its 'space'; while the great 'portrait' painters of the Renaissance hold you captive by the specificity of their scenes, and the physical, emotional and spiritual *truths* they captured in the faces they paint. Modern art leaves the artist some wriggle room, but you can't lie with the classics.

How's that for beard pulling, George. Would sure enjoy playing it in your company.

[Dan Herrmann]

I was lucky enough to spend a few days at Forest Dunes this week.  This was my second trip - first was 2016 when The Loop was still in grow-in.   Laura and I drove up from Philadelphia and love the resort and its vibe.


The first day, we played Forest Dunes, a fine parkland/open course designed by Weiskopf.    As we knew from our first visit, it's a fun course and well worth a play.   It's built on native sand formations, and plays firm and fast.    But no need to go into this course here.


The next afternoon, we teed it up on the Red.   I chuckled when I noticed the same tee markers (a minimalist triangular pennant flag about 2' off the ground) that, IIRC, was also present at Dismal River Red.


No need for a in-depth description of the courses here - Ran has done that, and in a manner much better than I.


But I wanted to share our feelings about the Loops courses.   Laura said, "I don't think I've ever had more fun playing golf".   I had very similar feelings - the experience reminded me fondly of Pacific Dunes and Dismal River Red.  There were a few times I laughed out loud - but in a respectful way - because of the clever way Doak and team routed the holes and the amazing greens and their surrounds.  I was just "happy" - really happy.


Black was the next morning.   It's a much tougher start, but you don't think you're playing the same course.   Red and Black are two completely different golf courses.   You don't even notice that 9 and 18 black/red share the same 9 and 18 green.   Yeah - it's that good.


The course is certainly firm and very fast.   It's much better to follow the guidance in Doak's yardage book and play a bit short.   Usually.    There are times when the undulations/moguls/hollows/etc will direct your ball to a tiny beach sand bunker, but there are times when you'll find yourself with a birdie putt.    (A better golfer than I could certainly play a high/spinning shot that would hold if he/she wanted).


The place has a great vibe too.  The staff is fantastic and every other golfer I spoke with was having a fantastic time.


I was chatting with a friend on Facebook, and I said that Forest Dunes reminds me a lot of Bandon back in 2001 before the corporate expense account mindset became (to me) a primary business driver.


I can't recommend the place more highly.     


PS - It's about an 11 hour drive from Philly, and is easy once you get past the PA Turnpike.   You can also fly into Traverse City or even Detroit.

[Jim Nugent]

Do most golfers there prefer the Loop or the Weiskopf course? 

[Dan Herrmann]

Do most golfers there prefer the Loop or the Weiskopf course?

Jim.  I didn’t ask, but I did spend 15 minutes talking with the starter on the Red.    He said that only one person he spoke with didn’t like the Loop.   Some were ambivalent, but most loved it. 


I would imagine that the people who prefer Forest Dunes are ones who like a more “USA Traditional” course.   The irony is that The Loop is, in fact, a course that I think even Old Tom Morris would recognize as a golf course.   

[Tom_Doak]

Do most golfers there prefer the Loop or the Weiskopf course?

There are lots of people who prefer the original course:  it's very good, and it's been a favorite of many since well before we started talking about The Loop.


But there are lots of others who have fallen in love with The Loop and are still trying to sort it out.  I've been surprised to find that includes a lot of the best players in the state; they have an event on the 31st of each month [May, July, August] where teams play both directions in the same day, and it's been a smash hit in that format.


We still have a couple of small tweaks we need to make to the course (new teeing grounds die to safety conflicts), but they have been too busy to make them.

[Michael Moore]

Nice low-key assessment of a couple of low-key courses. I still don't get it, can someone please post an illustration of the routing?

P.S. I still can't think of The Loop without thinking of John Kavanaugh's pre-construction assessment -

"After a few privileged pricks show up and insist on not waiting for the proper day to play the course of their choosing somebody is going to call Cluster F-ck. In five years there will be the course and the course we occasionally play on special occasions. I truly hope this is not the case as any course that requires a hit and runner to stay the night is perfect by me. That being said Bed and Breakfast may be the perfect name . . . I can't recall that guys name, you know ole four ball, but won't it be great to play the course in one direction and hit old balls backwards in the other?  It's gonna be tough but with a bit of creativity and a complete lack of social ethics I do believe a guy can rate both courses while only "paying" to play in one direction."

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played the three of the courses last year. All are very good.  I played the old course and the Red one day and the Black the next day. When I played the Black nothing look familiar. It was as though I played another course on a different property. The shots into the greens were so different that you don't realize that it is two courses over the same property. Fascinating.

[Tony_Muldoon]

P.S. I still can't think of The Loop without thinking of John Kavanaugh's pre-construction assessment -

"After a few privileged pricks show up and insist on not waiting for the proper day to play the course of their choosing somebody is going to call Cluster F-ck. In five years there will be the course and the course we occasionally play on special occasions. I truly hope this is not the case as any course that requires a hit and runner to stay the night is perfect by me. That being said Bed and Breakfast may be the perfect name . . . I can't recall that guys name, you know ole four ball, but won't it be great to play the course in one direction and hit old balls backwards in the other?  It's gonna be tough but with a bit of creativity and a complete lack of social ethics I do believe a guy can rate both courses while only "paying" to play in one direction."

..and I recall Doak writing on here about his main concern over trying a reversible course; that if one direction turns out better than the other, why play the lesser course at all?


I can be cynical too, but I like to think I can admit when I have got it wrong. It's been open 3 years now and I have spoken with those who have played it. My desire to play it is at least as high now as when I first heard about this audacious idea.  It maybe a little early to pronounce 'final' judgement on this; but Kudos to all involved, set the bar high and they cleared it, both ways.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Out of all the Renaissance courses I want to see, The Loop is right up there in the top 3

[Dan Herrmann]

PS - As others have said, the original Forest Dunes is very enjoyable and worth a visit on its own.   In no way did I intend to be disrespectful of Wisekopf's work there.   I played 5 rounds there in 2016 and would've returned even without the loop.


PPS - They are building a new 10-hole par 3 course to the right of The Loop Red #1.  And an employee told me the owner is considering adding another 18 hole course.

[Dan Herrmann]

Here are a couple routing diagrams (they're hanging in the pro shop).   According to the head pro, they do not represent the current state perfectly.


(I wanted to purchase a routing diagram, but not available)..