Pin Position Indicators on Classic Courses - "150" Stakes & Red/White/Blue Flags

[Joe Hancock]

150 stakes
water fountains
what else could one possibly need?

Private label bottled water?
Daily stimp meter postings for fairways?

[jeffwarne]

Water fountains do at least curtail mosquito population. We just moved from a house with a large bat population and when I bitched to my wife how I am getting bittin up tonight she was quick to point out...

to be clear, I meant drinking fountains
too many people ignore them, looking for bottled water
uneeded litter and waste

[BCowan]

Bottled water creates jobs and metal free water.  It also powers plants with methane and or provides job at recycling plants.  Just don't logo the bottle. Drinking fountains could give feeling of elitism

[John Kavanaugh]

Drinking fountains, love em. I spent my youth hanging with the special needs kids and have the full mouth technique down pat. Nothing like coming up for air and seeing the look on the face of the guy next in line.

[Thomas Dai]

150 stakes
water fountains
what else could one possibly need?

How about distances marked on each and every tree, bridge, fountain, cartpath curbstone, hazard post........


Ah sod it, just get rid of all yardage markers, yardage books, rangefinders, satalite wristwatches and clip-ons, green mapping books etc as well and just eyeball the shot to a same coloured flag just like in yee good olde days.


"Rangefinder distances from the middle of the fairway. Luxury! We used to have painted posts on the sides of our fairways" - - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo


Atb

[Brian Finn]

Drinking fountains could give feeling of elitism

I can't think of any inanimate object that better represents egalitarianism than a drinking fountain.

How, on earth, could one give a feeling of elitism?  Did you forget the little smiley face?

[Matthew Essig]

My home course has no 150 markers, black/white checkered flags and yellow flagsticks to be easier to see. The yardages are on the sprinkler heads and the front/middle/back depends on what "hole location number" it is for the day. Very non-cluttered.

[BCowan]

Drinking fountains could give feeling of elitism

I can't think of any inanimate object that better represents egalitarianism than a drinking fountain.

How, on earth, could one give a feeling of elitism?  Did you forget the little smiley face?

When I was a caddie I was told by a rater that drinking fountains were a requirement into getting ranked higher in the classic course section.  I don't remember the rag, don't know if the guy was BSing me.  I sorta connected the dots.  Maybe I'm wrong 

[John Kavanaugh]

My home course has no 150 markers and black/white checkered flags. The yardages are on the sprinkler heads and the front/middle/back depends on what "hole location number" it is for the day. Very non-cluttered.

I truly hate hole location numbers. They systematically handcuff the superintendent. Tuesday is 3 day, sorry if that is your day off, you are playing 3 and gonna like it.

[Matthew Essig]

My home course has no 150 markers and black/white checkered flags. The yardages are on the sprinkler heads and the front/middle/back depends on what "hole location number" it is for the day. Very non-cluttered.

I truly hate hole location numbers. They systematically handcuff the superintendent. Tuesday is 3 day, sorry if that is your day off, you are playing 3 and gonna like it.

Explain? I am the one who cuts them and I don't think it handcuffs anybody. I prefer it to a 3 flag color system. BTW, when a tournament is coming up it switches to a non-number system.

[Doug Bolls]

I played a course last week (Predator Ridge - BC Canada) that had wooden poles with a white PVC 12 inch long pipe over the pole.  If the white pipe was on top, pin was in back; if pipe was in middle, pin was in middle; if pipe was on bottom, pin was in front.  Pole was at 150 mark - wish I had a picture - hope you get the idea.  First time I have ever seen such a marker - it really helped - especially on blind shots.

[John Kavanaugh]

My home course has no 150 markers and black/white checkered flags. The yardages are on the sprinkler heads and the front/middle/back depends on what "hole location number" it is for the day. Very non-cluttered.

I truly hate hole location numbers. They systematically handcuff the superintendent. Tuesday is 3 day, sorry if that is your day off, you are playing 3 and gonna like it.

Explain? I am the one who cuts them and I don't think it handcuffs anybody. I prefer it to a 3 flag color system. BTW, when a tournament is coming up it switches to a non-number system.

Mathew,


You make my point for me. I believe members have earned the right to see the best pin positions based on conditions, not on the day of the week. Tournaments should see the predetermined formulas.(See the Masters)  I occasionally have a Tuesday game at a local course that uses the number system because of prior commitments in my usual group. I play the same pins every damn time because Tuesday is location 3 day. Boring.

[Keith Grande]

I played a course last week (Predator Ridge - BC Canada) that had wooden poles with a white PVC 12 inch long pipe over the pole.  If the white pipe was on top, pin was in back; if pipe was in middle, pin was in middle; if pipe was on bottom, pin was in front.  Pole was at 150 mark - wish I had a picture - hope you get the idea.  First time I have ever seen such a marker - it really helped - especially on blind shots.

I have seen something similar as well, except I believe it was a smaller flag/streamer placed on the flag pole.

[Sven Nilsen]

On a related note, one of my biggest pet peeves on set up is when par 3 tees are adjusted forwards and backwards depending on the days pin.  Over time I'd much rather play a hole that can range from 135 to 195 than one that is 165 every day.

[Tom_Doak]

Mathew,


You make my point for me. I believe members have earned the right to see the best pin positions based on conditions, not on the day of the week. Tournaments should see the predetermined formulas.(See the Masters)  I occasionally have a Tuesday game at a local course that uses the number system because of prior commitments in my usual group. I play the same pins every damn time because Tuesday is location 3 day. Boring.

Well that's just stupid.  The whole point of having three locations is that the rotation does not correspond to a 7-day week ... that you should see the three different locations on three consecutive weeks.  I did the same thing for The Loop ... 3-position rotation, plus they are changing direction every day, so that's really a 6-way rotation, which still works out to seeing different holes same time next week.


John, I used to be in your camp of wishing that the superintendent would just go out and use good set-up skills to set the course up every day.  But it's rarely the superintendent who actually does the job, and most of the underlings do not keep track very well of balancing out the hole locations on a given day.  If you're in a windy place, having a bunch of front pins on the downwind holes and a bunch of back pins on the into-the-wind holes can raise havoc with the set-up, but if that's happening then the set-up chart is poorly constructed.  Just because you're using 1,2,3 doesn't mean you have to have the front pin every third hole.

[Neil Davis]

I'd like to see us go back to the red flags on all the flag sticks, with small wooden 150 stakes on the side of the fairways that have a red, white or blue top.  I don't trust any of the yardage markers on our course, and as such use a laser.  The prisms on top of the flag sticks make it a quick and painless exercise.  And I'd like to see the ball washers removed, replaced with a few strategically placed caddie buckets under the water jugs.  I've yet to see a member play without a towel attached to their bag.   

[Paul Stockert]

Curious how many other clubs use Ravisloe's system, which I haven't seen elsewhere.  Flags are all white.  Standard red, white, blue plate at 100, 150, and 200.  Pin positions are noted by a small ball (I'd say the size of a softball) painted red, white, or blue placed on the ground (staked so it doesn't move) at the 150 marker on each hole.  You can generally see it anywhere on the hole when you're unobstructed enough to go for the green and you know if the ball is red then pin's up, white means middle, and blue means back.   


It's unobtrusive, simple, and best yet provides a fairly certain 1 shot advantage to regulars on the first back pin of the day where someone thinks the blue ball at the 150 is instead the 200 yard marker and puts it 50 yards over the green to the rest of the groups stifled laughter.  'No that's the PIN position, and wait you can't tell the difference between 150 and 200 yards??'    To be fair this has really only happened completely by accident but it's still funny.


PJ

[Niall C]

As of the Open, Troons sprinkler heads not only have yardages on them but also the distance in metres. It's as though Brexit never happened.


Sean,


In Scotland the norm is to have sprinkler head yardages to the front of the green, and not the middle. The one time I got caught out on this was at Kingsbarns which I think uses the English system of yardages to the middle. Playing the par 5 with the 90 yard long green when the hole was up the back of the green I mistook a yardage to be the front and ended up flying the green by about 20 yards with both my original ball and a dropped ball. An expensive lesson.


Niall

[Matthew Essig]

Mathew,


You make my point for me. I believe members have earned the right to see the best pin positions based on conditions, not on the day of the week. Tournaments should see the predetermined formulas.(See the Masters)  I occasionally have a Tuesday game at a local course that uses the number system because of prior commitments in my usual group. I play the same pins every damn time because Tuesday is location 3 day. Boring.

Well that's just stupid.  The whole point of having three locations is that the rotation does not correspond to a 7-day week ... that you should see the three different locations on three consecutive weeks.  I did the same thing for The Loop ... 3-position rotation, plus they are changing direction every day, so that's really a 6-way rotation, which still works out to seeing different holes same time next week.


John, I used to be in your camp of wishing that the superintendent would just go out and use good set-up skills to set the course up every day.  But it's rarely the superintendent who actually does the job, and most of the underlings do not keep track very well of balancing out the hole locations on a given day.  If you're in a windy place, having a bunch of front pins on the downwind holes and a bunch of back pins on the into-the-wind holes can raise havoc with the set-up, but if that's happening then the set-up chart is poorly constructed.  Just because you're using 1,2,3 doesn't mean you have to have the front pin every third hole.

Thanks for backing me up, Tom.


John,
You shouldn't have the same hole locations each day of the week when using a 1,2,3, system. We don't cut new holes on Tuesday and Thursday in order to not have too many plugs on the greens, and we still don't run into that issue.


M T W T F S S
1 1  2 2 3 1 2
3 3  1 1 2 3 1
2 2  3 3 1 2 3


And the cycle continues. Also, 1,2,3 doesn't have to front, middle, back. If you have a wide short green, it can be left, middle, right.


Tom,
I am not the superintendent, but keep all that, and more, in mind.
-Holes aren't always on the windward side.
-Switching tees up with hole locations so the lengths aren't the same day-to-day.
-Blurring the lines of what the front, middle, back are so, the holes aren't always in the same place.
I try to have the holes never play the same. I am sure I repeat at times, but that is inevitable. Rest easier that you have at least one underling who is a good nut.

[Jon Wiggett]

No problem with distance markers though think there is something lost when the player does not have to eyeball it. As for pin position indicators, this information is a total waste of time for the vast majority of players who have enough trouble just hitting the green.


Jon

[jeffwarne]

Drinking fountains could give feeling of elitism

I can't think of any inanimate object that better represents egalitarianism than a drinking fountain.

How, on earth, could one give a feeling of elitism?  Did you forget the little smiley face?

When I was a caddie I was told by a rater that drinking fountains were a requirement into getting ranked higher in the classic course section.  I don't remember the rag, don't know if the guy was BSing me.  I sorta connected the dots.  Maybe I'm wrong 

Nice to see caddies can be duped by stupid rater bull shite
It's usually the other way around

[Duncan Cheslett]

Yardages on sprinkler heads?


It is very unusual for me to encounter a course with a fairway irrigation system. It is one of the many advantages of living in the north-west of England! 


All I ask is a 150 yard post by the side of the fairway. I can figure out everything I need to know from there. It never ceases to amuse me when a 24 handicapper helpfully lasers a pin for me and I tell him the result to within a couple of yards before he has a chance to blurt it out!


As for pin positions - what's wrong with aiming to hit the middle of the green?

[Sean_A]

As of the Open, Troons sprinkler heads not only have yardages on them but also the distance in metres. It's as though Brexit never happened.


Sean,


In Scotland the norm is to have sprinkler head yardages to the front of the green, and not the middle. The one time I got caught out on this was at Kingsbarns which I think uses the English system of yardages to the middle. Playing the par 5 with the 90 yard long green when the hole was up the back of the green I mistook a yardage to be the front and ended up flying the green by about 20 yards with both my original ball and a dropped ball. An expensive lesson.


Niall

Niall


I have no idea which countries prefer which system of yard markers, its still relatively rare to encounter sprinkler head markers in GB&I.  My beef with with the front of the green for a marker is most of the time the middle of the green (especially for a 9 capper like myself) is the target. At my club we have new sprinkler heads to the front of the green and a pin placement sheet is produced each day...how stupid is that?  Just more work for the pro and opportunities for rubbish to be strewn across the course.  Luckily, the old 150 markers discretely placed (best I have ever seen) well outside of fairways remain...thats what I use.  To me, markers to fronts of greens is a less than subtle way to try and sell guide books...blah.  That said, I have been to a few places where I had no idea what the numbers meant...some sort of code which required a guide book 


Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

I dislike the posts at the side and dislike even more dwarf trees to indicate the 150.


We use at most of the courses I am involved in. Red discs at 100, White at 150, Blue at 200, Yellow at 250. (yards from the centre of the green) The mowers drive straight over the discs. Posts you have to get off to mow around then off again to put back in which takes time and is never going to be a greenkeeper's idea and is usually dreamed up by the clueless committee. The discs are easily seen you are always within 75 feet of one.


At The Players Club we use Red flags to indicate a position on the first 10 metres, White for the back 10 metres and Yellow for any other (middle position).


if you want a revenue earner produce your own planner setting various discs at more random distances but where shots are likely to be played from like the PGAtour planners do- measure to the fronts and the planner has those distances. If golfers don't pay £5 they don't know the distances.


Whilst some people (many here, me included) may dislike any aid, there are people that really slag off a golf course if they are not clear where they are going or unsure of the distances and no planner is available.

[Niall C]

Sean


It was Tony M who pointed out to me the difference between England and Scotland. Interesting comment though from both you and Duncan regarding the prevalence of yardages on sprinkler heads. It was my perception that they had become quite common and that they had taken over from the 100, 150 and 200 yard marker discs in the fairways.


It does seem though that these days every second player has some sort of GPS or laser device for measuring the distance. For years I collected strokesavers/yardage books as souvenirs but the last new course I visited they had stopped producing them on the basis that they were obsolete with rangefinders etc.


Niall