A C man says I missed something after only one play at TOC. Any guesses what?

[John Kavanaugh]

Quote "By common consent TOC is a great course but can a golfer really appreciate exactly what they have played after one game ? Are you really going to fully appreciate it first time round ? Not likely and that goes for any number of courses. Doesn't stop them being great."

Interesting, perhaps after a few more plays I will never purposely be right of the principals nose bunker again. Any others?

[JESII]

Haven't been there but I've always thought the point was that each hole should be played differently, sometimes dramatically, depending on the hole location and wind...and it gives you the room to do just that.

[John Kavanaugh]

Jim,


If you are playing for par I doubt that is the case. The most shocking aspect for me was the knowledge of my caddie.It probably wasn't fair. I recall on one hole putting from 85 yds out and then a couple of holes later being told to hit wedge because it was a "holding green". Just an amazing experience.

Or maybe I just love the guy because a couple of days later at "The Keys" he wouldn't let me pay for a drink. Now that's a great caddie!!!

[Eric Smith]

John - now is not the time to start listening to others tell you how you are supposed to feel.

[John Kavanaugh]

John - now is not the time to start listening to others tell you how you are supposed to feel.

Better than waiting till the next morning to be told how I felt.

[Peter Pallotta]

I've never really understood that sentiment, whether about TOC or any place else. Unless you're Hogan and landing in your own divots from they day before, a golf course -- any golf course-- will play differently today than it did yesterday, and so you will learn something new everyday. Sure, on great courses *what* you learn is more interesting than what you learn on mediocre ones, but that's another topic. In other words,  John,  you missed everything...and nothing.

[Eric Smith]

John - now is not the time to start listening to others tell you how you are supposed to feel.

Better than waiting till the next morning to be told how I felt.

My guess is heavy.

[John Kavanaugh]

Shouldn't you get back to posting on your trip thread.

[Dave McCollum]

After a Sunday stroll and a single play on Monday, I remember thinking that ignorance was bliss.  Also that I might score worse on subsequent plays.  The breeze was up both days, but 180 degrees different in direction.  What looked impossible one day was quite pleasant the next and visa versa.   

[John Kavanaugh]

Dave,


I agree with everything you said, and was lucky enough to play the perfect wind. In my face on one, at my back on 18. That being said what do you think you missed or didn't appreciate on your one tour.

[Tom_Doak]

Bobby Jones said that [paraphrasing here] the great thing about The Old Course was that if you hit a shot just a few yards off the line you intended, then your strategy for the next shot would likely have to change.

[John Kavanaugh]

Bobby Jones said that [paraphrasing here] the great thing about The Old Course was that if you hit a shot just a few yards off the line you intended, then your strategy for the next shot would likely have to change.

That makes perfect sense. Also I doubt that there is another championship course on earth easier from 150 yds in. And that is a compliment.

[Will Lozier]

The most shocking aspect for me was the knowledge of my caddie.It probably wasn't fair. I recall on one hole putting from 85 yds out and then a couple of holes later being told to hit wedge because it was a "holding green". Just an amazing experience.

Or maybe I just love the guy because a couple of days later at "The Keys" he wouldn't let me pay for a drink. Now that's a great caddie!!!

Wait...did YOU just speak highly of a caddie/caddie experience?! Truly shocking but also so encouraging!

[John Kavanaugh]

I've had tears in my eyes three times this year, once when my caddie from St. Andrews bought me that 5th Guinness, second during the closing scene in Pitch Perfect II, and finally just now watching the DNC convention. I'm such a softie.

[Josh Bills]

Walking across the Swilcan Bridge?

[John Kavanaugh]

Walking across the Swilcan Bridge?

As you may know I followed my caddie across the simple wooden bridge built for the common man. Perhaps some day when I have earned the right to cross the Swilcan bridge as the sun shines across my face I will return.

[Tom_Doak]

I doubt that there is another championship course on earth easier from 150 yds in. And that is a compliment.

It's all about the hole locations, John.  Years ago, a friend of mine who'd joined the R & A told me he was practicing to win the Autumn Medal, and thought he could do it because the winning score is typically only one or two under par, and he'd shot lower there already.    He's a VERY good player so he was not talking out of his hat; he just didn't know the course well enough.


If you get out again, ask your caddie to show you where the championship hole locations are.  Chances are you only saw two of them.  Some are almost unbelievable.

[Sean_A]

Is any other championship coure set-up to push the tourists through like TOC?  I don't reckon tourists get anything like the flavour of the championship course, we get a very watered down version.


Ciao

[Niall C]

Wow, quoted by John Kavanaugh, should I be worried ?


Niall

[John Kavanaugh]

Is any other championship coure set-up to push the tourists through like TOC?  I don't reckon tourists get anything like the flavour of the championship course, we get a very watered down version.


Ciao

I don't see this as a bad thing. Unlike Bandon I did not see a single marshal out on the course. Unlike the Sistine Chapel everyone was unified together as we shared the experience. It felt like magic how tee times were perfectly on schedule no matter how slow play was over the total. I don't get it and don't need to.


Sure we played from the yellow markers with the exception of 17 because our caddies felt the whites brought the hotel more into play. We still played the same bunkers, same gorse and same green surrounds. I hit long on 11, wow, not smart. The greens were more in line with championship play than commonly found day to day on most private courses. The caddies did point out some traditional championship pin placements that may have made some putts more difficult, but every putt in a championship is difficult. I thought the course was managed perfectly for the day I had the privilege to play.

[Steve Lang]

John,


   Did you play in the Himalayas?


   Did your caddie have to yell at the old farts coming in trying to hog the 18th-1st fairway, as you went out, as out going have the right of way?


   Did you stay out of the gorse?



   Did you play into Hell Bunker on purpose?


  Did you try to hit the English Lion on the side of the fake rail shed on the Road Hole, instead of taking it over?


   Did you enjoy being in the Valley of Sin?


Just wondering...   

[John Kavanaugh]

Steve,


I did not play the Himalayas but did pose for a picture with the manager. I don't enjoy putting so do not seek it out as a recreational endeavor.


The stunningly beautiful starter yelled a tourists to clear the first, my ball scattered the poor bastards crossing the 18th.


I lost one ball in the gorse. Took a drop and added two strokes. No one in my group hit a provisional the entire trip. We were good boys with full consideration for the other golfers on the course.


My caddie did me a favor and didn't inform me of the Hell Bunker. I birdied the hole.


On 17 my caddie told me to aim at a steeple which resulted in my pushed drive over the center of the hotel to find the middle of the fairway.


18 was playing 360 yds with a nice tail wind. This took the Valley of Sin out of play as I had a simple 70 yd wedge to the green. It's good to be old. On a side note I found the Valley of Sin at North Berwick to be more interesting as it was easily reachable for a guy like me.

[Mark Bourgeois]

John,

Off Tom and Sean's comments, to the degree you went left off the tee, and to the degree you successfully hugged the right side, were there any appreciable differences in the challenge coming in and / or holing out?

Or did it not make much difference?

Also, did the caddies make all the decisions for you or was it multiple choice?

[Josh Bills]

I had the good fortune of playing with John at the Old Course.  I believe he was even through 4.  However, he found trouble on 5 including the Spectacles.  I did take photos on the course with my phone (and hope it didn't offend John too much) but did manage to capture a few photos of the day.  The course, weather, caddies and company made my first experience on the Old Course even more enjoyable and amazing.



John in the Spectacles on 5, with his caddie, David, giving guidance.  That is the white flag for the hole behind him:



The hard to comprehend 7-11 stretch of holes, the only green not visible is the 9th:




John's putt location on 14 from the front swale, which he made for birdie.  This also coincided with the appearance of fellow GCAer Rihc Goodale, and John's game elevated with the audience:



I will post other photos, but believe Martin B. will have even more beautiful photos to share on either Eric's or this thread. 

[Sean_A]

Is any other championship coure set-up to push the tourists through like TOC?  I don't reckon tourists get anything like the flavour of the championship course, we get a very watered down version.


Ciao

I don't see this as a bad thing. Unlike Bandon I did not see a single marshal out on the course. Unlike the Sistine Chapel everyone was unified together as we shared the experience. It felt like magic how tee times were perfectly on schedule no matter how slow play was over the total. I don't get it and don't need to.


Sure we played from the yellow markers with the exception of 17 because our caddies felt the whites brought the hotel more into play. We still played the same bunkers, same gorse and same green surrounds. I hit long on 11, wow, not smart. The greens were more in line with championship play than commonly found day to day on most private courses. The caddies did point out some traditional championship pin placements that may have made some putts more difficult, but every putt in a championship is difficult. I thought the course was managed perfectly for the day I had the privilege to play.

JakaB


My comments were not levelled as a complaint, just the way it is and a big reason why TOC flatters handicaps like few championship courses do. 


Now that you mention it, on my last game at TOC I didn't notice a marshal...which was very different from earlier visits when marshals were an extreme negative for the experience.


Ciao