Castle Stuart Scottish Open 2016

[Thomas Dai]

Castle Stuart in a decent wind on day 1 - wonderful. 😊


Putts from off the green, low flighted shots, bumps into banks, firm bounces, balls running and chasing, long rough swaying. And all with on the face of it plenty of width.


Proper golf?


Atb

[Ryan Taylor]

Agreed. Best wishes to the folks in WV but I'm glad the golf viewing community gets to focus on proper golf this weekend! The World Golf whatever at Firestone was hard to watch. That golf course makes my stomach hurt watching the pros play drive and gauge from the long rough / trees. 

[David_Tepper]

Interesting that only 4 holes  (9, 10, 12 & !6, which all played downwind) played under par. The par-5 18th hole, which played into the wind, averaged 5.56.

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[Ronald Montesano]

Agreed. Best wishes to the folks in WV but I'm glad the golf viewing community gets to focus on proper golf this weekend!

Isn't that the truth! All eyes on western New York. The most proper of golf.


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[Jon Wiggett]

I was out at CS today and especially in the afternoon it was a very stiff breeze. The course was in very good shape and playable though position off the tee was at a premium. An interesting tit-bit was that they did not mow the greens this morning. The wind was slightly across on most holes which led to most of the difficulties. I will be there again on Sunday with fellow GCAer John Chilver-Stainer so if anyone else is there and wants to meet up just drop me a line


Jon

[BHoover]

Why can't Castle Stuart become a regular Ryder Cup venue? It seems like a no-brainer to me. What a fantastic venue it would be for match play.

[Niall C]

What a fantastic venue it would be for match play.

Why ?

Niall

[RJ_Daley]

It seems as if the coverage is particularly good with excellent camera angles, or more camera positions.  Perhaps it is just me, but the broadcast seems better than usual.  It is nice to see the contrasting weather/wind patterns to see the teeth and the more straight up approach to play.  Yet still giving options like I just saw Mannesero and his playing competitor pitch and putt from relative same position and both accomplishing the task well.  It is nice to see the pros approaching things in two different methods and demonstrating to the usual viewer who tries to emulate pros that one can be more creative with shots.  And of course, the hourly change of benign to rain ad wind kicking up as is happening now 10:30amCentDLST.  Go Matteo!   

But, I also am becoming a Reed fan.  He seems to embrace the links difference along with his enthusiasm to go for the gold if given a spot. 

 

[Thomas Dai]

It seems as if the coverage is particularly good with excellent camera angles, or more camera positions.

RJD,


I am also impressed with the coverage. I think the relative open aspect of the terrain combined with quite considerable elevation in many places helps. Stunning location doesn't hurt either.


Cracking course. Just about the only UK coastal modern I really would like play, other than maybe Mach' Dunes and Skibo...the first and last though if someone else was paying!


Atb

[JJShanley]

My sister snagged four comped tickets for tomorrow, which my future BiL and his mates will enjoy. 


She used to work for a politician who got offered full corporate hospitality for Murifield in 2013, but who turned it down out of hand before anyone else could enjoy it.  I disliked this person for other reasons, but I understand that my father made high-pitched wailing noises when he heard that he could have spent the day in the Bollinger tent.  (The drive to Inverness was too much for him to make just now, and he needs to get back to Edinburgh for Monday morning.)

[BHoover]

What a fantastic venue it would be for match play.

Why ?

Niall

Because I think it would be. The setting, the weather, the fact that it's a links (or links-like) compared to the recent venues in Europe.

Do you disagree?

[RJ_Daley]

I reckon it comes down to a great sequencing of holes and their pars and distances as they unfold for a good match.  I'm not sure there is much of a formula, but I think there is a lot of opinion on which other courses are great match play courses, and one might cue off of those set-ups. 

Thomas, since Gil also did the new work at Crail, have you seen it and I suspect it doesn't stack up to CS.  But I did enjoy Crail Craighead, I just get the impression it is a wee short of the masterpiece CS seems to be from the TV viewer point of view.   

[Bill Crane]

David Tepper -


While I have not played Castle Stuart, it does seem to have a similarity to R Dornoch in that it plays on multiple plateaus at different elevatons.  Is that a fair comment?


The greens seem comparatively low profile in relation to Dornoch's, generally.


Bill Crane

[RJ_Daley]

The two level concept was also used by Pete Dye in the creation of Whistling Straits.  I don't know if he saw something like Dornoch is described as on two levels or tiers.  Also as a manufactured creation of waterside two levels was the course in an eastern bloc nation that McDowell won a few years ago.

[Niall C]

Brian

I was interested why you thought it would be a good matchplay course and what in particular made it a good matchplay course. I'm not sure I see anything there that suggests it's particularly suited to matchplay or that isn't. I certainly don't think setting/weather etc has any bearing, other than for how it looks on TV.

Niall

[Niall C]

David Tepper -


While I have not played Castle Stuart, it does seem to have a similarity to R Dornoch in that it plays on multiple plateaus at different elevatons.  Is that a fair comment?


The greens seem comparatively low profile in relation to Dornoch's, generally.


Bill Crane

Bill

That I think is a perceptive comment. To my mind not only CS but also Kingsbarns is like that. Can't think of too many links that paly on distinct levels like that apart from perhaps Cruden Bay and Balcomie.

Niall

[BHoover]

Niall, I have not played Castle Stuart. I only have the benefit of watching the television coverage of the Scottish Open. Compared to recent European venues for the Ryder Cup, Castle Stuart seems, at least to me, that it would be a good choice for a Ryder Cup. I could be wrong, of course, but seeing the course on television made me think it looks like a good choice.

May I ask what you dislike about Castle Stuart? Is it that the course is not a "traditional" links?

[Andrew Simpson]

David Tepper -


While I have not played Castle Stuart, it does seem to have a similarity to R Dornoch in that it plays on multiple plateaus at different elevatons.  Is that a fair comment?


The greens seem comparatively low profile in relation to Dornoch's, generally.


Bill Crane

I can see the reason for a comparison but I would say they are used in a completely different way.
For me CS uses the two levels as completely different areas with no use of the slope as a link.
Dornoch on the other had does predominantly on  8, 16 and 17 with 3 and 5 linked by the tee shot. D also has holes on the same level side by side where CS sites every hole alone.


As a RC venue I think it would work well with a few small tweaks for crowd access, as in general it is such a large area with plentiful viewing areas. Though that will never happen. That said I've not seen any coverage on TV yet having been there all week but in practice the players were happier with the general changes tightening up the holes though the greens are a bit lacking.

[David_Tepper]

"While I have not played Castle Stuart, it does seem to have a similarity to R Dornoch in that it plays on multiple plateaus at different elevatons.  Is that a fair comment?

The greens seem comparatively low profile in relation to Dornoch's, generally."

Bill C. -

As I mentioned on another thread, my understanding is Royal Dornoch & Cruden Bay were courses Mark Parsinen had in mind for the design of Castle Stuart. Clearly they share a "split-level" nature. But, as Andrew S. has noted, there are holes connecting the levels on the those 2 courses while play on the 2 levels at Castle Stuart is separate.

Yes, the greens at Castle Stuart are generally not as elevated as at Dornoch.

DT     

[Sean_A]

Doesn't CS does link between levels except for 12th leading to the 13th which is an awful part of the routing. The other level changes are incorprated into the holes....no?


Ciao

[David_Tepper]

"Doesn't CS does link between levels except for 12th leading to the 13th which is an awful part of the routing. The other level changes are incorprated into the holes....no?"

Sean -

Is the walk from the 12th green to the 13th tee at CS a whole lot different (or a whole lot more "awful") than the walk from the 6th green to the 7th tee at RD? The two courses have that in common.

DT
 

[Sean_A]

David


The walk is far worse at CS...its a serious weakness in the routing especially when we consider the 12th was raised a ton to reduce that difference in level. So you get an uphill slog at 12, followed by a terrible uphill walk to the 13th, followed by another uphill hole. 


Ciao

[David_Tepper]

Sean -

No doubt the upper-level is at its highest at that end of the property. How do you think the transition from 12 green to 13 tee could have been handled better? Maybe with an uphill par-3? 

DT

[Andrew Simpson]

Doesn't CS does link between levels except for 12th leading to the 13th which is an awful part of the routing. The other level changes are incorprated into the holes....no?


Ciao

Not sure what "doesn't CS does link" means but my reply to my guess at the meaning is,,
There are elevation changes on say 7, 14, 18 but they are all on the upper level, likewise 12 does climb but it's still doesn't rise to the upper level. Perhaps you might sight 3 as the tee is half way up the slope but realistically 1-4 on the lower level, climb up to 5 then play the upper level to 9. down to 10 and along  to 12, then its 13 to 10 on the upper level.
 None of these compare to 3 and 5 nevermind 7, 16, 17.
I'd say the vertical rise is very similar from 12 at CS and from 6 at RD but at RD the distance is longer reducing the incline severity % wise.


Ciao  LOL

[Sean_A]

Sean -

No doubt the upper-level is at its highest at that end of the property. How do you think the transition from 12 green to 13 tee could have been handled better? Maybe with an uphill par-3? 

DT

I think in the old days the archie would probably have taken more holes to climb the elevation, but most likely that area of the property wouldn't have been used.  I can't say 12 and 13 are a success, but I suspect that for the lower holes on the back nine to be used there had to be some penalty to pay in the routing.  It may have even been the case that the lower holes had to be built because 36 and accomodation may have been a possibility from day 1.  In any case, there are more than enough excellent holes to make up for 12 and the climb to 13 tee. 


Ciao