Fix it (?): #9 at Del Monte

[Matt_Cohn]

I hadn't thought much of Del Monte before this past weekend, but my respect for the course has really gone up by quite a bit. The greens were fast and the hole locations were serious (lots of 3's and 4's from edges). If we got out of position or above the hole, we were sometimes fighting for bogey, let alone par. It's a legitimate test. At 6,365, par 72, the winning score for the Monterey City Amateur was only -4.


However, the 9th hole is not good. It's a non-functional hole in the middle of a lot of interesting ones. The summary is that there is nowhere to aim your drive where it isn't a matter of luck whether your second shot is blocked out by a tree.





The hole is 524 yards, par-5. The first 250 yards are maybe 10 feet uphill, and the remaining 275 are about 25 feet downhill. The typical wind is about 10 mph from left to right. Here's the view from behind the green:





But here's what's going on in the fairway. This is the view from the center of the fairway after a 275-ish drive. For reference, a good 100-yard layup would be at the flash of sand you can see in the middle of the picture:





So you might think that if a player challenges the left side of the hole (where there's OB about 15 yards from the fairway), he would be rewarded with a clear shot, right? Here's the view from where I hit my drive, about 270 yards and 7 yards into the left rough:





Actually, someone in the right trees is just as likely to have an open shot — but it's just a matter of complete luck.


This is messed up, right? How would you fix it?

[Mike Nuzzo]

I've never been and would never suggest a change without understanding the entire course or do I know if anyone is consulting.
For fun only:
All the fairways look too narrow.
I would start by making the fairway wider away from the homes, remove the small tree and have the big tree be more of a feature.
Maybe add a bunker to challenge the left side.

[Bill_Yates]

The hole is fine the way it is. Hit it right off the tee and you've got real tree trouble all the way to the green. The proper drive is to the left center of the fairway. This allows you a fairway wood or hybrid fade to your 100 yard lay up spot.

In fact, the only thing I feel you can complain about is that you hit it in the rough. And even from there with a bit of a deep lie, it looks like you had a pretty clear line to the green and a safe layup.

I played there last week and hit a drive in the middle well short of yours. I then hit a 5 wood over the tree and a 9 iron to the green.

Don't need to fix the hole, just fix the way you approach playing the hole.  Some might call this strategic architecture.

[Matt_Cohn]

Don't need to fix the hole, just fix the way you approach playing the hole.  Some might call this strategic architecture.

Let me re-focus on a point here and see if you still hold that conclusion. I could indeed hit a hybrid, then a 6-iron, and most of the time I would have a wedge of some sort into the green. But that's actually not the best way for me to play the hole. I think that over time, my lowest average score will result from hitting driver off the tee into the right trees. Wherever I end up, I'll only have about 240 to the green. Sometimes I'll get lucky and have a shot at the green; the other times I'll be able to whack it out someplace where I'll have a wedge third shot anyway. It's basically pure luck which of those results I'll get.


Why would I want to hit less than driver from the tee? That eliminates the chance of reaching the green. If I mishit a hybrid, now I have to hit a 4-iron over a tree, possibly from the rough. If I miss it left, I'm OB. If I miss it right, I'm in as much tree trouble as if I hit driver, but 50 yards farther back.


My best play is to hit driver into the trees and hope I get lucky. How is this not anti-strategy at its finest?!

[Bill_Yates]

Matt,
First let me say that you are a far better player than I am, and I am not trying to tell you how to play your game. I think you misunderstood my point.


I am saying that the hole opens up to a driver off the tee that finds the left side of the fairway or even the rough as seen in your photo. It is from there, depending on the lie, that your path is clear to the green (see photo) and you will then have the option of going for the green with a fade, or laying it up with an iron or hybrid.


Like you, I also love Del Monte and find it a fantastic classic course with eighteen challenging holes. The green complexes are great and the course is fun to play and affordable. Let's play there some time. It would be great to meet you and heck, I need the lesson.

[John Mayhugh]

Matt,
Thanks for bringing up Del Monte.  I have only played it once - a couple of years ago - and was very pleasantly surprised with the course.  A lot of interest on such a small site.  The green complexes provide loads of interest and wouldn't be out of place in the UK.  I didn't find the 9th too awkward, but I'm also no encumbered by your distance.  Playing a 230ish yard tee shot presented only one problem - the big tree on the inside of the dogleg.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of shorter trees that were more recently planted on the right side, probably to prevent the strategy that you are talking about.

As Mike noted, the big tree as a feature might be more tolerable w/o the smaller one(s).  As-is, it's a bit of a boring second shot. I'm ok with one hole like that on the course, though I would also be plenty happy to get rid of the majority of the trees.

Mike, fairways are about 30 yards wide, but the rough (at least when I saw the course) was pretty inconsequential, so course plays quite a bit wider. 

Though I've yet to make time, I've wanted to do a photo tour of the course, as I think it deserves more attention than it gets.  Granted, it's a tough neighborhood.  But I would rather play Del Monte than Spyglass or Spanish Bay, even w/o factoring in price. 

[Matt_Cohn]

Matt,
I am saying that the hole opens up to a driver off the tee that finds the left side of the fairway or even the rough as seen in your photo. It is from there, depending on the lie, that your path is clear to the green (see photo) and you will then have the option of going for the green with a fade, or laying it up with an iron or hybrid.

I was literally 8 yards into the left rough and blocked from the green. 


But the rest I agree with you on!

[Matt_Cohn]

Mike, fairways are about 30 yards wide, but the rough (at least when I saw the course) was pretty inconsequential, so course plays quite a bit wider. 

Incidentally, I think some of the fairways have been narrowed. I noticed it enough that I paced off #1 in the drive zone...21 yards across! Plenty of others are wider, but also some aren't!

[Alex Miller]

Matt,
I am saying that the hole opens up to a driver off the tee that finds the left side of the fairway or even the rough as seen in your photo. It is from there, depending on the lie, that your path is clear to the green (see photo) and you will then have the option of going for the green with a fade, or laying it up with an iron or hybrid.

I was literally 8 yards into the left rough and blocked from the green. 


But the rest I agree with you on!

Blocked from the green with a left to right prevailing wind? Show a little finesse and shape one!!! 


Seems like it's a solid hole that could do with the fairway widened on the left.

[Brad Tufts]

I dunno...I feel like on a shorter course like ODM, there is room for these holes where trees and a bit of luck is the defense.

Sometimes Ross built holes that were 420 plus that takes today's driver out of a player's hand and forces a shorter club off the tee followed by a long iron.  As long as the shot value is there (very narrow with driver with big reward of short approach distance, or wider with shorter club off the tee followed by long iron), I think this is ultimately ok.

Maybe #9 at ODM is just one of those "wide with short tee club, very narrow with long club" holes?  I get what Matt is saying, but not every 524y hole is meant to be hit in two.  I played the course once back in 2005 or so, but don't really remember the holes now so thank you for the pics!