[Ronald Montesano]

Feeling that earth, its movement and its stasis, beneath our feet, the part of golf they don't discuss. You discover it for yourself, on your own time, in the proper moment. Some architects make reference to it, but it is rarely a tenet of a new-course build. Without walking, golf is poorer.


Same goes for people on the edge of an industry. Without being principal figures, without a major stake in the game, their contributions are noted, but their words are forgotten if they are even read or heard. Most days.


With that said, here's an interview from Rob Rigg and Ben Cowan, on the Walking Golfers Society.


http://wp.me/p20nYT-3tH

[MCirba]

Great job to all involved.  I've shared to Facebook and recently joined this very worthwhile society.

If more of us decided to walk, as the game is meant to be played, the health benefits would be immeasurable and the enjoyment factor would go off the charts.

[Anthony Gholz]

Good job, Ben.  You're an excellent spokesman for your cause!

[Tom_Doak]

It's a good interview.


One of the parts of the movement toward golf cart use that was omitted from the response by Rob is that for the first 10+ years that carts existed, they were the golf professional's purview ... all of the cart revenues went to the pro and not to the club.  So, club professionals unfortunately had a financial incentive to encourage cart use.


Then, once most clubs started taking the cart revenue for themselves, the situation flipped and new courses were actually built with cart revenues in mind.


I wish to heck courses were honest about the cost / benefit analysis of golf carts.  Courses have to spend more on maintenance because of golf carts, but due entirely to the way they price things, "carts" are seen as a profit center more than green fees.  They are literally putting the cart in front of the horse.

[Mike Sweeney]

If more of us decided to walk, as the game is meant to be played, the health benefits would be immeasurable and the enjoyment factor would go off the charts.

Can anyone comment on the data about walking?

http://thewalkinggolfer.com/benefits_of_walking/physical.html

Most of the apps like loseit.com seem to say 1200 to 1800 calories burned for 18 holes carrying.

[Ronald Montesano]

A separate point, certainly, but it boggles the mind that we have high school leagues where golfers are prohibited from pushing a cart. They must carry their clubs, unless they have a medical excuse. When we point administrators toward the AJGA and NCAA, where golfers frequently use push carts to alleviate strain on shoulders, they have no answer.


I've abandoned carrying forever, and wish I had made the move ten years ago. Absolutely no reason to do it, if a push cart is available.

[BCowan]

Ron,

   Thanks again for taking the time to do this interview and that was nice of you to post it to GCA.  There are a few GCAers that have done interviews and course profiles over the years, so I don't want those to go unnoticed.  thanks.

[Charlie_Bell]

Agreed, RM.  In the U.S. I think the biggest impediment to walking is the macho-driven stigma attached to using push carts.  As this diminishes -- and you're right to salute the AJGA and NCAA -- the American golf world will be a healthier, happier one.

[Joe Hancock]

RM,

Certainly using a push cart is less strenuous than toting a bag over a shoulder, but let's face it...young people who think that's too taxing on their body at that age are not going to be the next ones in life to build your house, or install your lawn irrigation, or pick up your garbage.....there's millions of people who do work every day that is far more strenuous than the act of carrying golf clubs.

I have no problem with people who carry, push or ride for that matter. Why this decision is so polarizing is beyond me.

FYI, I enjoy carrying and have a limited number of clubs in my bag to fit my personal preferences....and am unapologetic about it.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Golf bag - 2.5 to 5 lbs., 14 clubs - 12 lbs., a few balls/tees/towel/bottle of water/snacks - 3 lbs., 3 wheel push cart -17 lbs, misc. items you stuff in your bag when using a push cart - 3 to 5 lbs. Tot.= 35 to 40 lbs.


Golf bag - 2.5 lbs., 8 clubs - 7 lbs., balls, tees , towel, water, snack - 3lbs. Tot. = 12 lbs.


Carry if the terrain is hilly.




     
 

[Mike Sweeney]

RM,

Certainly using a push cart is less strenuous than toting a bag over a shoulder, but let's face it...young people who think that's too taxing on their body at that age are not going to be the next ones in life to build your house, or install your lawn irrigation, or pick up your garbage.....there's millions of people who do work every day that is far more strenuous than the act of carrying golf clubs.

Life is complicated. My son is in the military, he has run a 1/2 Ironman as a big dude, is a D1 athlete, he is currently "off the grid" for a month hiking in Alaska, and this is him "working" last summer:



For the life of me, I can barely get him to walk and carry with me. Sometimes he will push a golf bag around 18 holes. Last trip to Yale, he jumped in the cart with my college roommate who seriously broke his ankle a year ago in an ice hockey accident. [/b]

[Charles Lund]

I spend about 16 weeks a year in Australia and Ireland.

My overseas travel has limited my tolerance for carts and American golf culture, despite an abundance of great courses.

Lately,  there has been an effort to market golf boards, which are like motorized skateboards.  This dinosaur is underwhelmed.

Charles Lund

[Sean_A]

I have no problem with people who carry, push or ride for that matter. Why this decision is so polarizing is beyond me.

Probably because the more people that ride the less chance more good walking courses will be built. Its a long term issue rather than the immediate choice to ride, push or walk.


Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

For me, unless there is a medical reason then people should be walking whether that is carrying or with a pull trolley does not matter.


Jon

[Charles Lund]

Private clubs in Australia require a medical certificate for a disability. 

Ireland has an abundance of very fit and hardy late 60s and 70 year olds walking. 

I liked the policy at the Old Course in St. Andrews.  You could ride if over 65 or had a certificate for disability.  But you had to pay 20 pounds for someone to drive the cart.

Barnbougle had a variation on the policy.  Anyone could play with a riding cart, but had to pay a driver.

At some courses here, like Torrey Pines, the rough makes it hard to find balls, even when walking directly on the line of flight.  Carts enter and exit at fixed points and are not allowed in the rough, so it is hard to reconstruct the line of flight.  As a walker, paired up with cart players,  I have found myself helping look for balls on just about every hole.  I am sure cart usage slows down play there by 20 minutes to a half hour per foursome.

Charles Lund

[Stewart Abramson]

Just got back from 17 rounds in Ireland. 16 courses only had 2 wheel pull trolleys. The only one that had 3 wheel push trolleys was the Island. After the first several days my shoulders did get a bit sore from pulling the two wheelers. I wish more courses had the 3 wheeled variety.

[Sean_A]

For me, unless there is a medical reason then people should be walking whether that is carrying or with a pull trolley does not matter.


Jon

Jon


No, I am not nearly so militant simply because there are tons of courses which are a drag to walk.  That said, there are some courses that won't support cart traffic so yes, restrictions should apply.


Ciao

[BCowan]

It's a good interview.


One of the parts of the movement toward golf cart use that was omitted from the response by Rob is that for the first 10+ years that carts existed, they were the golf professional's purview ... all of the cart revenues went to the pro and not to the club.  So, club professionals unfortunately had a financial incentive to encourage cart use.


Then, once most clubs started taking the cart revenue for themselves, the situation flipped and new courses were actually built with cart revenues in mind.


I wish to heck courses were honest about the cost / benefit analysis of golf carts.  Courses have to spend more on maintenance because of golf carts, but due entirely to the way they price things, "carts" are seen as a profit center more than green fees.  They are literally putting the cart in front of the horse.

Tom,

  I see where you are coming from.  However the Golf Club that I grew up at, the pro received a portion of the golf cart revenue as an addition to his salary.  This incentivized him to make sure he accounted for all the carts used.  The club is 60% walking and carts aren't encouraged, but a few trail fee ideas got quickly shot down the few times they arose.  However without a strong walking culture I could definitely see your side of it. 

  Public golf is another animal as you know.  I've called over half the golf courses in Michigan this year for our Walk-ability ratings and I'd say 2/10 or more public's don't allow walking before noon on the weekends.  The same answer is pace of play  .  You could have 3 slow groups in carts, but that one slow walking group gets singled out and stereotyped.  Getting to ones tee shot is faster in a cart but considering the average golfer hits 3-7 greens around (a guess) they are much slower around the green in a cart. 

   One of the reasons for the State trolley thread was comprised to show how much different walking cultures are from state to state.  Ohio looks down on trolleys at most mid to high end private clubs.  Michigan is becoming more trolley friendly as of late.  I wanted to show how many private clubs across the country welcome trolleys to help eradicate the trolley is for muni's outlook in Ohio.  My mother has played in the Toledo Woman's District for 50 years.  A lady asked her how the club was doing, she said very well.  The lady asked what do you attribute it to.  The reply was a strong walking culture with Trolley's, a good location, and value.  The lady replied how muni ish trolley's were IHO.   

  What I left out of the interview that was important was the fact how much more prevalent shotguns are today then they were 25 years ago when I was a kid.  They really foster carts and factory golf.  I'm curious if the PGA programs push them?   
 

[Jon Wiggett]

For me, unless there is a medical reason then people should be walking whether that is carrying or with a pull trolley does not matter.


Jon

Jon


No, I am not nearly so militant simply because there are tons of courses which are a drag to walk.  That said, there are some courses that won't support cart traffic so yes, restrictions should apply.


Ciao

Sean,


I can see there are some courses where the distance between holes is too far to be realistic to walk but here in the UK these are very rare. I can also see that there are cases where it is just too hot to walk.


Jon

[Sean_A]

For me, unless there is a medical reason then people should be walking whether that is carrying or with a pull trolley does not matter.


Jon

Jon


No, I am not nearly so militant simply because there are tons of courses which are a drag to walk.  That said, there are some courses that won't support cart traffic so yes, restrictions should apply.


Ciao

Sean,


I can see there are some courses where the distance between holes is too far to be realistic to walk but here in the UK these are very rare. I can also see that there are cases where it is just too hot to walk.


Jon

Yes, I carried on two hilly courses in NC last August in the heat and humidity...not fun for a fat and 50s guy.  The third round we carted, but it was a serious cartball course.  That doesn't mean I am willing to dictate how the game should be played so long as courses aren't damaged.  Although, I really dislike cart paths on courses which are very walkable.  If I were the Benign Dictator of Golf my decree would be carts are fine for walking courses, but no paths and only in conditions which won't damage the course....my main issue is with paths, not carts.

I think we agree in a spirit, walk when its reasonable to do so.   

Ciao

[Niall C]

Three cheers for the benign dictator ! Couldn't agree more, it's the cart paths that are the real issue although personally I wouldn't want anyone using a buggy on my course unless they had not only a medical certificate but a note from their mum.

Earlier this year I got to play Pasatiempo for the first and probably last time. A terrific design that is compromised by the rough around the greens, the planting (itself a consequence of a weakness in the design) and lastly and most significantly in my book, by cart paths. At least in a modern design they can be allowed for and their effect mitigated against. Not so easy on a classic course if Pasatiempo is anything to go by. Such a shame but I do recognise some folk have a real need for them.

Niall

[John Kavanaugh]

I would love to see every course in the world go to walking only and watch the true golfers scream as fees rise. Most guys who remain as dues paying members but rarely play enjoy a cart ride when they do. The first guys to quit a club when fees begin to outreach use are the hitch and bitch crowd.

[BCowan]

Hitch N Bitchers should be thrown out of the club.  Unacceptable. 

[John Kavanaugh]

I just lost 40lbs and spent more on rain gear than a years dues at three of the clubs where I am a member just so I can walk in Scotland. I feel more of a sucker than a hero.

[BHoover]

I just lost 40lbs and spent more on rain gear than a years dues at three of the clubs where I am a member just so I can walk in Scotland. I feel more of a sucker than a hero.

You want a cookie?

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