Are tiered greens the worst?

[Michael Felton]

One feature that is probably underused is a spine in the green running from front to back, rather than across the green from side to side.  You might say that a spine creates tiers alongside each other, rather than on top of each other.  I can think of a few greens like this, but not many.  I like that look.

The 14th at St George's Hill is like this. http://www.stgeorgeshillgolfclub.co.uk/courses/tour_blue_9/#cv-tabs-14th


Another tiered green I didn't see mentioned is this one here (courtesy of Randy Haag's blog):


Not sure it looks natural, but it's a great hole.

[Tim Gallant]

Keith, thanks for writing about Montclair, and I will look back in the archives to see if there are similarities / differences between how Ross employed tiered greens in comparison to Banks. Do they look/play similar?


Jim/David/Michael, I agree the spine perpendicular to play works best with tiered greens. Looking at the 14th at SGH, while I haven't played there (yet!), it appears from the diagram that the spine doesn't run the full length of the green, and further, that it doesn't merge two 'levels' as a step might. Is it therefore just a nice 'natural' feature, which was incorporated into the design of the green rather than tiering two distinct areas of flat green?


The Royal Haag green looks tremendous. It is tough to see from that photo, but I love how the tiers have a softer look, and blend nicely into the surrounding areas. This flies in direct contrast with what I have generally experienced with tiered greens - ie. harsh steps, unnaturally perched on a plateau to create some thought on the approach.


I will give on one position: I believe that a more unnatural looking tiered approach works better when the entire course design follows a similar design. I am thinking of Raynor specifically (although caveat* I have not played a Raynor) - if the bunkers are more straight-lined, and there are more angles to the edges of greens / bunkers / fairway definition, then I think a rigid tier approach works better.

[Ally Mcintosh]

How about this one?


Photograph courtesy of Kevin Markham from whom I haven't asked permission... Hope he gives me a pass on this one occasion:

[Adam Lawrence]

One feature that is probably underused is a spine in the green running from front to back, rather than across the green from side to side.  You might say that a spine creates tiers alongside each other, rather than on top of each other.  I can think of a few greens like this, but not many.  I like that look.

The 14th at St George's Hill is like this. http://www.stgeorgeshillgolfclub.co.uk/courses/tour_blue_9/#cv-tabs-14th

And it's an absolute brute if you get the wrong side of the spine. It must have been a hard, hard hole back in 1914, especially since it appears from club minutes that the ridge was even bigger -- there's a record from 1924 of a committee meeting where it was agreed to 'ease the ridge'.


Part of me thinks that the hole is a classic example of a very long par three that has been made a lot easier by club and ball technology. There is a quite glorious spot for a new back tee that would make the hole in excess of 230 yards for appropriate competitions.

[Michael Felton]

I think the spine at SGH would have been much easier to cope with if the greens were slower. If you're on the wrong side of it now (I haven't played there in about 10 years, so I may be a little off), you're basically dead.


Tim - either side of the spine is basically on the same level although it slopes from back to front and keeps sloping away from the spine as well. The spine itself is maybe 3 feet high at its peak. It's only really obvious for about the back half of the green. In front of that it's more like a ridge that is constant slope to the green edges. It's a really nice feature and one that I have not often seen.


The photo I posted is of the 8th green at Pine Valley. That was the best picture I could find of it. It's a short par four, with a sloping fairway and from memory here is how Dan Jenkins described it: "it's a wedge from a sloping fairway to a green about the size of a dinner plate. No, I exaggerate. It's more the size of an ashtray". It's tiny and it has tiers as well, making it play effectively smaller.

[Randy Thompson]

How about this one?


Photograph courtesy of Kevin Markham from whom I haven't asked permission... Hope he gives me a pass on this one occasion:

Talk about love at first sight, that is the best green and the best hole of golf I have ever seen in a photo!

[Tim Gallant]

How about this one?


Photograph courtesy of Kevin Markham from whom I haven't asked permission... Hope he gives me a pass on this one occasion:

Talk about love at first sight, that is the best green and the best hole of golf I have ever seen in a photo!

I can't argue that it doesn't look natural, and as mentioned, I think a spine works better than a 'step' approach. Additionally, the tiers look much more blended into one another than a straight lift. I also love the fall-off on the front of the green, alla 16 at North Berwick, but in terms of the green itself, I would like to see it in person. Ally, thanks for sharing the photo - where is it out of curiosity? Somewhere in Ireland?


Michael, I realise the photo credit was for Randy Haag, and not a photo OF Royal Haag Glad I agreed the green looks quite natural and exciting.

[Jim Hoak]

A main advantage of a spine in a green as opposed to a "step" green is that it makes a player think more about where the approach shot is played from.  You want to hit toward and into the tier where the hole is located.  Requires more strategic thinking.

[Jon Wiggett]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but the 16th at Golspie is a great example of a man made stepped green that looks really good.


Jon

[Robin_Hiseman]

Tim

It's the 8th green on the Kilmore 9 at Carne, in Co. Mayo, Ireland. We'll be playing it in the golfclubatlas BUDA Cup this year.

[MCirba]

What about 16 at Pasatiempo?

[Evan Fleisher]

What about 16 at Pasatiempo?

You beat me to it!  Here's a pic...

[Nate Oxman]

Off topic, but Bill, I think that photo of Forsgate is mislabeled. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't see how it could be Forsgate's 12th. Is that a creek beyond the hole? Also, if the photo was taken from a similar view from the tee, it can't be Forsgate. The "opening" of the horseshoe at Forsgate faces the tee. If the tee is to the right in the photo, the bunkering doesn't appear to match up. I also don't think there's that much space between the 12th and the 8th hole, not enough to fit that creek anyway. I could be very wrong, but I think the photo is mislabeled.

[Tim Gallant]

What about 16 at Pasatiempo?

You beat me to it!  Here's a pic...

Thanks for sharing the pic - I haven't played Pasa, so can't judge this particular green. BUT, looking at the photo, I am not particularly inspired by that green. It is more the aesthetics of the bunkering that gets me excited. What if that green was surrounded by oval shaped bunkers? Would you feel the same about the green?