Looking to play the oldest courses state by state...

[Ken Moum]

A friend of a friend is on a quest to play the oldest golf course in each of the lower 48 states, and has managed to get 38 of them so far, but the last ten have him stuck.
So, my friend asked me if I could help and my first thought was that there’s no better place to look than GCA.com.
He believes these are the oldest in these six states:
MN--Town & Country Club, St. Paul, 1893
NJ--Lawrenceville School Golf Course, Lawrenceville, 1890
NY--Quogue Field Club, Quogue               , 1887
VT--Dorset Field Club, Dorset, 1886
WI--Eagle Springs Resort, Eagle, 1893
WV--Oakhurst Links, White Sulfur Springs, 1884
 
For Connecticut, Massachusetts, Michigan and Rhode Island he’s identified these candidates:
CT:
Greenwich Country Club, Greenwich, 1892
Brooklawn Country Club, Fairfield, 1895
Country Club of Farmington, Farmington, 1895
The Sharon Country Club, Sharon, 1895
Fenwick Golf Club, Old Saybrook, 1896
Shennecossett Golf Course, Groton, 1898
MA:
Highland Links, North Truro, 1892
Milton Hoosic, Canton, 1897
Segregansett Country Club, Taunton, 1893
William J Devine Franklin Park GC, Dorchester, 1896
MI:
Wequetonsing Golf Club, Harbor Springs, 1895
Charlevoix Golf Course, Charlevoix, 1896
Harbor Beach Golf Course, Harbor Springs, 1896
Harbor Point Golf Club,1896
RI:
Point Judith Country Club, Narragansett, 1894/1895
Newport Country Club, Newport, 1894
Do any of the member here have a better grasp of this than he does?
TIA, Ken

[Mike Sweeney]

For Connecticut, Massachusetts, Michigan and Rhode Island he’s identified these candidates:
CT:
Greenwich Country Club, Greenwich, 1892
Brooklawn Country Club, Fairfield, 1895
Country Club of Farmington, Farmington, 1895
The Sharon Country Club, Sharon, 1895
Fenwick Golf Club, Old Saybrook, 1896
Shennecossett Golf Course, Groton, 1898
MA:
Highland Links, North Truro, 1892
Milton Hoosic, Canton, 1897
Segregansett Country Club, Taunton, 1893
William J Devine Franklin Park GC, Dorchester, 1896

RI:
Point Judith Country Club, Narragansett, 1894/1895
Newport Country Club, Newport, 1894
Do any of the member here have a better grasp of this than he does?
TIA, Ken

I would be surprised if Greenwich is not the oldest, but it is a modern country club with an updated golf course. If he wants to play two courses that feel like they are turn of the century, Fenwick and Shenny would be preferred and are public. Fenwick may has some restrictions July and August.


Newport is Newport. It is hard to argue with a founding club of the USGA as oldest. They have outings, and in general New England clubs are open to letters in the off season. Have only driven past Point Judith after a surf day, and it looks good not great. 1893 is the date listed here for NCC - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_Country_Club

[MCirba]

Ken,

There's a recent thread on Lawrenceville School and the 1890 date is not correct.   Some very informal golf was played there by John Reid Jr. on land that may or may not be part of today's course but that was 1894 at the very earliest, and probably a bit later.   The first formalized course wasn't built until the school hired James Swan from St. Andrews in fall of 1896 who developed a six hole course that opened in 1897.   Four of the holes from his course, or at least their routing corridors, are still in use today as holes 1 thru 4.

In Massachusetts, I believe the 1892 date for Highland Links is also suspect and if I recall from Anthony Pioppi's book it was closer to 1900 before a formal course existed there.   

[Brad Tufts]

I would guess TCC might be the oldest in Mass.


The Club goes back to the 1870's, but some holes were in place sometime in the 1880's I believe.  I'm saying this from memory, without references.


Dorset is the answer for VT based on everything I've ever heard.

[Benjamin Litman]

Ken: Quogue Field Club is not the oldest in New York. As I detailed in my IMO piece (http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/litman-benjamin-s-timeless-golf-at-quogue-field-club/), the 1887 date is the date of incorporation. Its first course opened in 1896, making it the third oldest in the Hamptons behind Shinnecock Hills (1891) and Maidstone (1894). I do not know if Shinnecock is the oldest in New York state.

[MCirba]

I would guess TCC might be the oldest in Mass.


The Club goes back to the 1870's, but some holes were in place sometime in the 1880's I believe.  I'm saying this from memory, without references.


Dorset is the answer for VT based on everything I've ever heard.

Ken,

Brad is also correct here with TCC.   The first holes were designed by 3 members and opened in 1893, Willie Campbell rearranged that in 1894, but only pieces of most of those holes are in use.   Today's 7th hole though goes back to the original, I believe.

Dorset is oldest by all accounts in VT.

[MCirba]

I apologize because I don't recall where I got this drawing from, but it's the 1898 version of Brookline with the Campbell 1894 version drawn atop it to show what was utilized.  I have a drawing somewhere of the 1893 course but can't recall if today's 7th was on it, but believe it was.

[Sven Nilsen]

Newport is older than Point Judith.


I'd be curious to see what he has for the states not noted. 


Trying to figure out oldest existing courses is not an easy task and leads to some interesting conversations.  For example, the date your friend has for Dorset Field Club would make it older than St. Andrews, and vying for the oldest course in the country.


Sven

[Josh Tarble]

Sven,
I can't help with your request, but would it be possible for you to list the courses your friend has played?  Interested to know the oldest in each state. 

[Wade Whitehead]

Oakhurst in WV is correct.

He is looking to play the oldest, not the oldest and continuously run, right?

WW

[MCirba]

Here's the first six hole course at Brookline laid out in spring of 1893 by members Hunnewell, Curtis, and Bacon.   I found this drawing in the Morrison/Paul book "The Nature Faker", which details the courses of William Flynn.

It appears that today's 7th hole was not in this iteration, but instead in the 1894 nine-holer (above) from Willie Campbell.

[Sven Nilsen]

Mike:


Which raises the question as to where you draw the line.  Should a course that was only has one hole left from its original routing count?


Should a course like Oakhurst which was rebuilt after 90 years of nonuse count?


Here's a fairly helpful thread from a couple of years ago, but even that thread needs some updating.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57954.0.html


Sven

[Mark Pritchett]

I would guess Glen Arven in Georgia. 

[MCirba]

Mike:


Which raises the question as to where you draw the line.  Should a course that was only has one hole left from its original routing count?


Should a course like Oakhurst which was rebuilt after 90 years of nonuse count?


Here's a fairly helpful thread from a couple of years ago, but even that thread needs some updating.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57954.0.html


Sven

Really good points, Sven, and I'm not sure the right answer either.   

For my documentation purposes, I generally consider if golf was played on the same, or part of the same property, but understand others who want something more concrete and continuous.

Thanks!

[Mark Bourgeois]

Great thread.

Wouldn't St Andrews be the oldest in NY?

In VA, the Homestead claims to have the oldest continually maintained first tee (Old Course) in I believe the US. Not sure where that leaves us.

Reading between the lines of the Macdonald Timeline Project, would Onwentsia lay claim to IL?

[Nigel Islam]

Indiana is likely Woodstock Club in Indianapolis as far as I can tell.
Kemtucky is likely Middlesbourough CC

[PCCraig]

Ken,


Town & Country in St. Paul is certainly the oldest club/course in Minnesota. The club dates to 1888 and golf has been played on the same grounds since 1893.

[Jud_T]

This is a bed-post notching exercise which is one I can actually get behind and is the kind of thing which should be lauded here more than the usual access-whoring-braggadocio (I played the Top 100!) which goes on under the guise of research.  I'd also be very interested in the full 50 state list.

[MCirba]

Great thread.

Wouldn't St Andrews be the oldest in NY?

Mark,

Probably the oldest club, but the course moved twice in the early years, finally to today's site around 1897.

[Ken Moum]

I'm am once again amazed by the depth of interest the members of this group have in golf courses, especially old ones.


Since this is a friend of a friend, I will have to get back to them about the whole list, although I suspect he might not be thrilled to find out that y'all don't agree with his choices.


Also, this points out one of the dilemmas of GCA.com--the fact that more knowledge doesn't often result in more definite conclusions.


Reminds me of the 23 years I spent working for the SD Game, Fish and Parks Dept.  EVERY wildlife expert will tell you that the more you study something the less likely you are to claim you know anything absolutely. 


The more you know, the more you realize you don't know squat.  And everyone who ever bought a hunting or fishing license is an expert.


It's no wonder that when I started working for GCSAA I felt right at home.  Everyone who ever held a putter knows more about golf turf than any of the folks who grow grass for a living.


K

[Ian Mackenzie]

9 hole or 18?


Wouldnt the current Downers Grove Golf Club qualify as the oldest in the Midwest?
It was the precursor to (the current) Chicago Golf Club and built in 1892 by Charles Blair Macdonald.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-20/sports/9202150423_1_golf-history-nine-hole-herbert-warren-wind


"There is some controversey as to whether the first 18-hole course in America was at Belmont or in Wheaton when Macdonald`s Chicago Golf Club moved in 1894. Macdonald`s autobiography states ``in the spring of 1893, I increased the number of holes from nine to 18 and on the 18th day of July 1893, the charter of Chicago Golf Club was granted.`` Golf historian Herbert Warren Wind, golf architecture expert Ron Whitten of Golf Digest, author Robert Sommers and others recognize the Belmont site as the first 18 holes in America, as does the United States Golf Association."

[JBovay]

CT:
Greenwich Country Club, Greenwich, 1892
Brooklawn Country Club, Fairfield, 1895
Country Club of Farmington, Farmington, 1895
The Sharon Country Club, Sharon, 1895
Fenwick Golf Club, Old Saybrook, 1896
Shennecossett Golf Course, Groton, 1898

Fenwick has a better claim on being the oldest course in the state than Shennecossett. However, I'm not familiar with the various country clubs listed above.


When you check in at Fenwick and tell the person in the Borough Office that it's your first visit, they'll hand you a card with a history of the course. It includes the following: "The Fenwick Golf Course is the oldest public golf course in the state of Connecticut and, following the Greenwich Country Club, the second oldest course in the state. The first three holes (5, 6, and 7) were laid out in 1894. Holes 2, 3, and 4 were added in 1895, and the full nine-hole layout was completed in 1896." Later on... "the upper part of the [6th] green is the oldest green in the state in its original location."


Shennecossett Golf Club was not founded until 1898, and it seems unlikely that much of it survives from that era, based on the description on their website. About half of Ross' 1916-19 course is still on the ground today.

[Ken Moum]

Here's his list of courses played:


 

AL	Highland Park Golf	Birmingham	1903
AR	Brinkley Country Club	Brinkley	1903
AZ	Phoenix CC	2901 N. 7th Street	1920
CA	Aetna Springs GC	Pope Valley	1890/92
CO	Patty Jewett Golf Course	Colorado Springs	1898
DE	Ed Oliver Golf Course	Wilmington	1901
FL	Ocean Course at Breakers	Palm Beach	1897
GA	Glen Arven Country Club	Thomasville	1892
IA	Sioux Golf & Country Club	Alton	1887
ID	Hayden Lake CC	Hayden Lake	1907
IL	Downers Grove Park District Golf Course	Downers Grove	1892
IN	Riverside Golf Club	Indianapolis	1901
KS	Topeka Country Club	Topeka	1906
KY	Middlesboro Country Club	Middlesboro	1889
LA	Audubon GC	New Orleans	1898
MD	Elkridge Club	Baltimore	1900
ME	Kebo Vally	Bar Harbor	1891
MI	Ann Arbor Golf & Outing Club	Ann Arbor	1901
MO	Glen Echo CC	Normandy	2/21/1901
MO	Normandie	St. Louis	1901/03
MS	Great Southern	Gulfport	1908
MT	Butte CC	Butte	1899/1908
NC	Pinehurst #1	Pinehurst	1897/1898
ND	Fargo CC	Fargo	1916
NE	Field Club of Omaha	Omaha	1898
NH	Exeter Country Club	Exeter	1889
NM	The Lodge Golf Course	Cloudcroft	1911
NV	Glenbrook Club	Glenbrook	1924/1926
OH	Ottawa Park Golf Course	Toledo	1894
OK	Guthrie Golf & Country Club	Guthrie	1900
OR	Gearhart Golf Links	Gearhart	1892
PA	Foxburg Country Club	Foxburg	1887
SC	Palmetto Golf Club	Aiken	1892
SD	Minnehaha Country Club	Sioux Falls	1905
TN	Chattanooga Golf & CC	Chattanooga	1896
TX	Hancock Park	Austin	1899
UT	Forest Dale Golf Course	Salt Lake City	1906
VA	The Old Course	Hot Springs	1892
WA	Tacoma C&CG	Tacoma	1894/1905
WY	Kemmerer Field Club	Kemmerer	1920

[Nigel Islam]

Ken,

Woodstock in Indiana is older than Riverside. It was the original Country Club of Indianapolis. The history is on the CCI website. South Bend had a course prior to this, but I don't think it still exists. Maybe Ken Fry might know more about that?

[Phil McDade]

Is Ann Arbor generally recognized as the oldest in Michigan? Dating to 1901, according to this list, it seems odd that the state would not have a pre-1900 course/club, given that several nearby states -- Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois -- have several pre-1900 courses.