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Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« on: June 07, 2016, 12:17:35 PM »
Wow...I didn't know about this but the views look incredible and the drive on #7 looks more intimidating (although probably no more difficult)! Only 6 trees left within the course boundary!!


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/golf/2015/09/22/More-trees-removed-but-otherwise-not-too-many-changes-at-Oakmont-for-2016-U-S-Open/stories/201509220066

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2016, 12:43:28 PM »
Wow...I didn't know about this but the views look incredible and the drive on #7 looks more intimidating (although probably no more difficult)! Only 6 trees left within the course boundary!!


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/golf/2015/09/22/More-trees-removed-but-otherwise-not-too-many-changes-at-Oakmont-for-2016-U-S-Open/stories/201509220066


Will,


For those who don't recall, this was pretty controversial when it started.


No, very controversial!
Tim Weiman

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 01:09:31 PM »
I was out there last year and the tree removal was amazing!!! They absolutely made the correct decision and the course could not be playing any better. All lines of play were open and recovery shots were possible. Darn near perfect.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 01:32:36 PM »
What's with all the aiming poles? Were these there before the tree removal? Give me trees instead.

Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 01:36:32 PM »


Will,


For those who don't recall, this was pretty controversial when it started.


No, very controversial!




Tim,


I am well aware of the original tree removal and attended a 2007 Open practice round and was astonished in the best way. But, I wasn't aware of this latest stage of clearing and the views now of 2-8 from the clubhouse and "western" holes. It seems to me to sort of reconnect the routing in a positive way!


Cheers

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2016, 02:41:59 PM »
The more recent tree removal the last 2-3 years looks amazing. @OakmontHooks on Twitter has done a great job documenting much of the work.
H.P.S.

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2016, 10:58:50 AM »
I was out there last year and the tree removal was amazing!!! They absolutely made the correct decision and the course could not be playing any better. All lines of play were open and recovery shots were possible. Darn near perfect.
Will the rough be cut down to a point where recoveries are possible?
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2016, 11:15:13 AM »
Looks phenomenal.  I only worry about the logo squirrel.  He has no trees to climb!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Peter Pallotta

Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2016, 11:22:04 AM »
If you're a squirrel at Oakmont, you don't climb you fly. That's the way squirrels at Oakmont like it -- the toughest course for squirrels in the world. When Oakmont squirrels travel, they have a big advantage over the local squirrels.   

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2016, 11:26:24 AM »
Do folks know if cool trees were cut down?  Was it just mass slaughter or eliminating the crap trees which blocked views of...well...cool trees?


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2016, 11:48:59 AM »
Do folks know if cool trees were cut down?  Was it just mass slaughter or eliminating the crap trees which blocked views of...well...cool trees?

Ciao

There are not many trees left in the interior of the course, Sean.  These pics are from my visit in October of 2015:

http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Oakmont/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2016, 12:07:49 PM »
Do folks know if cool trees were cut down?  Was it just mass slaughter or eliminating the crap trees which blocked views of...well...cool trees?

Ciao

There are not many trees left in the interior of the course, Sean.  These pics are from my visit in October of 2015:

http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Oakmont/index.html


Joe...I meant when the did the initial cull.  Was it a mad scientist slaughter or preserving cool trees?


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2016, 12:28:21 PM »
Sean:


Don't think there were many "cool" trees left at Oakmont, as almost all of the original Oaks died off as a result of the initial clearing process.


Anything that was there had been added later.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2016, 01:18:18 PM »
Sven


Why did the club decide to clear nearly all the oaks?


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2016, 01:57:06 PM »
Sven


Why did the club decide to clear nearly all the oaks?


Ciao


They didn't, they died as a result of the clearing process.  Wasn't intentional.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2016, 02:12:27 PM »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2016, 03:13:38 PM »
Terry:

Its a pretty good thread, but unfortunately the participants were missing one essential piece of the puzzle.

May 1931 Golf Illustrated -



Any conversation about trees at Oakmont and the intentions of the Fownes should take into account the unintended loss of the trees that were left on site when construction began.  You can make a pretty strong case that they liked the resulting open look of the place, as tree planting appears to have been severally limited over the first 40+ years of the course's existence (and even that is debatable as the photos at the bottom of this post indicate).  But I've read nothing that suggests that this was part of any initial plans or ongoing vision for their creation.  It may have been, but it may also be the case that they preferred to direct their resources elsewhere, specifically to the nearly 35 year attempt to evolve and perfect the bunkering scheme and alterations to the greens themselves.

I happen to prefer today's version as opposed to the prior iteration.  Perhaps the Fownes would have as well.  But stating that it is a return to their intentions is unsupported speculation.

As an aside, the proposed changes from RTJ in the 70's that can be found buried in that thread are worth bringing back into the light:

"Mr. Jones had also suggested adding a pond in front of #5....changing the par 3 16th into a par 5 and making #17 into a par 3.  The green chair at the time, Mr. Stewart, was quoted by Mr. Brand that "no major changes would be made to Mr. Fownes' masterpiece under my watch", and these major proposals never materialized."

1919 Amateur-



April 1919 Golfers Magazine -



Aug. 1925 Golf Illustrated -



May 1931 Golf Illustrated -



1927 Aerial -

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2016, 05:06:58 PM »
Sven


Why did the club decide to clear nearly all the oaks?


Ciao


They didn't, they died as a result of the clearing process.  Wasn't intentional.


Sven


Sven


Am I to understand that because other trees were cut down that the oaks died?  If so...why?


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2016, 05:21:35 PM »
Sean:


If I knew that I'd be an arborist.


Something they did caused the trees that were left to die.  What exactly that was I couldn't tell you.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2016, 05:54:53 PM »
Who knows what they did, but Oaks (in general) are pretty sensitive to their surroundings. Building up soil, messing with their drainage, activity within the drip line, etc. all stress them out.


That tree next to the cart path in the May 31st GI photo doesn't stand a chance, and the parallel fairways in the 1927 aerial wouldn't help them either.


ed. (from a friend who is an arborist)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2016, 06:09:33 PM »
A few more related articles...


Links
Oakmont Tree Removal
By Dunlop White III
http://www.linksmagazine.com/golf_courses/oakmont-tree-removal

Golf Digest
Gorilla in the Midst
By Ron Whitten
http://www.golfdigest.com/story/oakmont-country-club-2016-us-open-venue

Golfweek
Oakmont reveals sweeping new look but same fast greens for 2016 U.S. Open
By Brad Klein
http://golfweek.com/2016/04/25/oakmont-new-look-fast-greens-2016-u-s-open-three-putts-tree-cutting-media-day/

Wall Street Journal
Why Oakmont Waged a War on Trees
http://www.wsj.com/articles/timber-why-oakmont-waged-a-war-on-trees-1465849293

GCSAA
Tree removal has left Oakmont in the clear for 2016 U.S. Open
http://www.gcsaa.org/newsroom/news-releases/2016/june/tree-removal-has-left-oakmont-in-the-clear-for-2016-u-s-open 



« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 06:11:18 PM by Howard Riefs »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2016, 07:10:01 PM »
Who knows what they did, but Oaks (in general) are pretty sensitive to their surroundings. Building up soil, messing with their drainage, activity within the drip line, etc. all stress them out.


That tree next to the cart path in the May 31st GI photo doesn't stand a chance, and the parallel fairways in the 1927 aerial wouldn't help them either.


ed. (from a friend who is an arborist)


Jim


Thanks... didn't appreciate that hardwoods are so delicate.  That said, I have now seen pix and I do like what I see with what is left...fine specimens proudly displayed.  Nothing irks me more than not seeing grand trees because of the surrounding crap. 


Howard...thanks for the links.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2016, 10:26:53 AM »
Good stuff Sven.

Seems that at least some mild tree planting had taken place prior to 1925.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2016, 12:53:23 PM »
A very good 10-minute Golf Channel story on the tree removal efforts at Oakmont. The course superintendent and USGA agronomist join the set to talk about the course at the ~11 minute mark.


http://www.golfchannel.com/media/story-how-oakmont-turned-back-clock/
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: More Tree Removal at Oakmont
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2016, 01:27:59 PM »
A very good 10-minute Golf Channel story on the tree removal efforts at Oakmont. The course superintendent and USGA agronomist join the set to talk about the course at the ~11 minute mark.


http://www.golfchannel.com/media/story-how-oakmont-turned-back-clock/


The textbook example of a Matt Ginella regurgitation.
H.P.S.