SENIOR PLAYERS Championship @ Philadelphia Cricket's Tillinghast's Gem

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Begins this Thursday and you can watch on Golf Channel  @ 12:30pm EDT


Wish I was there but I'm stuck in the desert. Cricket is a great place and this course is a great one thanks to Keith Foster's restoration which has been well documented here.

[Michael Blake]

Steve,


An interesting note is that every single hole is out of sequence for the tournament.  I realize logistics are an issue for any club hosting a TOUR event but I don't think I've seen one where this was done.  If it has I've just been oblivious to it. Anyone cite an instance in a MAJOR?


Anyway, I'll be on the 4th (11th) and 6th (13th) holes Thus-Sun volunteering on Mark M's Long Drive committee if anyone wants to stop by and say hi.  Weather looking great.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here is Joe Logan's article on the re-routing of holes for the tournament with a video by Dan Meersman, Director of Grounds at Cricket:


http://myphillygolf.com/detail.asp?id=17400


Geoff Shackelford on Cricket:


http://www.golfchannel.com/media/shackelford-reviews-historic-venues-hosting-majors/

[Joe Bausch]

I've reconfigured the Wissahickon photo album to match the routing for the Constellation Senior Players:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/CSPatPCC/


I hope this might aid your viewing of the tournament starting tomorrow.   

[D_Malley]

is the 18th hole for the tournament being converted to a par 4?



if so, that will be two extremely difficult par 4's to finish with

[Joe Bausch]

is the 18th hole for the tournament being converted to a par 4?

if so, that will be two extremely difficult par 4's to finish with

Yes and yes, Dan.


I happen to think the re-sequencing of the holes ain't bad at all!

[mike_malone]

 I think the course has been neutered by removing so many trees. Perception is lost and now bunkers are the only hazard.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Steve,


An interesting note is that every single hole is out of sequence for the tournament.  I realize logistics are an issue for any club hosting a TOUR event but I don't think I've seen one where this was done.  If it has I've just been oblivious to it. Anyone cite an instance in a MAJOR?


Anyway, I'll be on the 4th (11th) and 6th (13th) holes Thus-Sun volunteering on Mark M's Long Drive committee if anyone wants to stop by and say hi.  Weather looking great.

I will be around tomorrow, my knee doc got me into it as an honorary observer for Friday.  I will look you up.

ed

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The course looks great on tv. A little windy there, fast greens and some good rough means only 5 scores so far under par 70.

[Brad Fleischer]

Mike

How much tree removal was done ? I've only walked the course but seeing that most on this site would be in favor of most tree removal I'm curious if you could delve deeper into your thoughts .

[Dave Givnish]

About 400 trees were removed in the first wave. About 75 trees were removed along the rail line in the second wave. Those were both done well before the Foster renovation. One member told me that the membership liked the results of the first removal wave but that the second wave caused a good deal of controversy.

[Michael Blake]

The course looks great on tv. A little windy there, fast greens and some good rough means only 5 scores so far under par 70.

It was very windy on the shared 4/14 tee.  Mark & I lasered every group on # 4 for longest drive.
Wind was directly into us. Drives ranged from 210 to Vijay's 269, I think. Daly was 3rd group this morning and the wind was whipping. His was 249 and ended up in the right rough.  Most guys were hitting it 220's-230's.  The left fairway bunker wasn't in play due to the wind.


The other hole used to measure drives was #6 and that was straight downwind. Vijay's was longest there too. I forget the number the guys radioed to us but it was mid 300.

[Jon Cavalier]

For what it's worth, I played this morning at a similarly-trees course less than 2 miles from Cricket, and the wind really made a difference at times - surprisingly strong and quite gusty.

[mike_malone]

Brad
Many holes at Cricket had trees which framed the holes and created the dogleg. I felt it helped with shaping your shot.
As I said it now is left to bunkering to create some angled play or tactical decisions.
I have a reputation as "chainsaw Mike" at my club but it was useless evergreens not beautiful hardwoods that had to go.
I chose " neutered" because I wouldn't say it is better or worse.
It just feels like they lost the character and made a more modern course much like one you might see in the Carolinas.

[Gib Carpenter]

is the 18th hole for the tournament being converted to a par 4?



if so, that will be two extremely difficult par 4's to finish with

Hi old friend I hope you are well.

As regards tournament 18 for the SPC it gets a little tricky but you should be able to follow along.

1) The hole you remember as #7 was a short non-descript par-5 with a giant tree growing out of the middle of a bunker 75 yds short of the green directly in the line of play.

2) During the course of  the restoration we discovered that the hole was both originally #4 AND not a par-5 at all but a stout par-4.

3) We restored the hole to both it's original par and it's original place in the routing (what you remember as 7-8-9 are actually 4-5-6 and vice versa).

4) Now the hole plays as a par-4 measuring anywhere from 440 to 517 (not a typo) yds for member play. But it's into the prevailing wind.

This is the hole that is playing as tourney 18 for the SPC. They have it set up for about 470 but moved it up to 450 bc the wind was blowing so hard. Today about a quarter of the field hit it in regulation.

Lanny Wadkins mistakenly said on today's telecast that both tourney 18 and tourney 17 (i.e. old 9/new 6 with the abandoned railroad on the right) are regularly par-5's for member play. Although I certainly play them as such they are both par-4's and we do have about 25 scratch or better members who routinely play them as such from tees well behind the ones they are using for the SPC.

Simple no?



Simple no?

[D_Malley]

Gib,
great to hear from you and i hope that you are doing well, the golf course is looking great on TV!



Thanks for the detailed answer!
I was not sure what par the new 4th hole (tournament #18) played as for the members.


I always felt that the prevailing wind at PCC played a big part in the design.
As the really long par4's like what i refer to as 9 (now #6) & 18 were always down wind.
And the shortish par 5's like 4 (now #7) and 12 always played into the wind.


I have to think that Tilly factored prevailing wind into this design.


I think i got these numbers right?

[Gib Carpenter]

Yes indeed Dan & I couldn't agree more on the wind factoring into how these holes play. As we always said, when you get to the 16th tee at the far western edge of the property and it's 435, 450 & 480 home you generally have the solace of knowing that 1) they are all usually downwind and 2) regardless, every step takes you close to the bar 

When I saw them setting up original 4/interim 7/new 4/tourney 18 (simple) my immediate thought was that it was a big ask if the wind blows. Great example of par being just a number on the card. All my best. Gibber

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The difficult Wissahickon course at the Philadelphia Cricket Club and the wind that has made club selection a challenge have combined to send the scores a little higher at the Constellation Senior Players Championship.

With the wind dying down a little bit Friday, the scoring average dropped more than a stroke from the day before, to 72.763. But the pacesetting 36-hole score of 2-under-par 138 by Brandt Jobe is the highest 36-hole score to lead a PGA Tour Champions event since the 2008 Senior PGA, when the top score was par 140 by Tom Purtzer.
Thanks to the wind and the fast greens, the course is playing to a stroke average of 73.363 for two rounds, marking the highest average to par of any Champions venue since the 2015 U.S. Senior Open.Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20160611_Cricket_Club_layout_a_test_for_Senior_players.html#1xckSloiuRgPGmTy.99

On trees:

Eventually, 2,500 trees were removed from the 135-acre layout. Many of those that remain were there when Tillinghast, a member himself, laid out the handsome Whitemarsh Township property.
Now, as the world's best aged golfers gather there for what will be its biggest professional showcase, many believe the old Wissahickon course is looking and playing surprisingly fresh.
"I think the course had lost its scale. Now it feels big again, like the championship course it is," said Tom Sheridan, the club's grounds chairman. "We've got its greater majesty back."Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/golf/20160609_How_Phila__Cricket_Club_found_its_roots_through_tree_removal.html#wrgztwwLy8x2MExj.99

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Still playing tough. Third Round Summary:


http://myphillygolf.com/detail.asp?id=17464&pid=20

[Michael Blake]

From Steve's link:


Bernhard Langer on why he is so hard to beat and his strategy:[/b][/font]
"I'm pretty hard on myself, to tell you the truth, because I put a lot into it so I expect a lot.  I prepare well and I give it 100 percent so I expect results.  But on the other hand I know how difficult it is, and once a guy says you have to forgive yourself before you even hit bad shots because you're going to hit some bad shots, and it sounds so simple but it's a lot of wisdom behind that.  But I just try and play strategically smart, whatever that is for me.  If I don't feel good with my driver, I hit 3 wood[/i][/font].  I hit 3 woodon 18 which is, whatever it is, 400 and quite a few yards straight into the wind.  I went with 3 wood and 3 hybrid.  I could have hit driver and maybe 4 iron, 5 iron, but I felt better that way.  That's what I do.  I sometimes hit drivers when others hit 3 wood because I feel good, and then when I don't feel good, I take a hybrid or 3 wood and just keep it in the fairway.  I think the key is to hit fairways and hit greens and leave the ball below the hole.  If you can do that, you can break par around here."
[/i][/font]

Langer's all business. I was on the 6th tee all day, watched every single player's tee shot to record with a rangefinder.  Not much wind early but decently downwind in the afternoon.

Right fw bunker starts at 286. Langer was the ONLY player yesterday who did NOT hit driver He hit a hybrid, 285. He birdied it! Every other player in the field hit driver. Longest drive of day was Jay Don Blake. Rode the wind over the bunker to 342.

Par 3 8th is just right of 6th tee box in opposite direction and was basically into the wind. Hole was more accessible than yesterday and they moved the tees up. I shot it at 200. Most guys were waaay short. You feel like telling the caddies on the 6th tee just that. Though Watson hit a nice one up there.

I'm tiny but wow, Bob Tway is a tall guy.
Most players on the tee are talkative and friendly. Others, not so much.

[/size]I'm leaving soon to head out there. Probably stick me on 6th tee again.
[/size]Supposed to be very windy today.

[Michael Blake]

Oh, and if anyone wants a free Grounds Access single ticket for today, please text me asap. It's only 1 ticket.
I'll leave it for you at will call.


610.212.7045

[jeffwarne]

Is it me or is the course quite sterile and textureless looking on TV?

[Michael Blake]

Ticket is under Mike Blake-golf club atlas, if anyone wants it.

[Howard Riefs]

Bernhard Langer wins with score of +1 score. Last time Champions Tour event had a winning score above par? April 2012 at Encompass Championship at TPC of Tampa Bay (-1).

[John Foley]

Very impressed with Philly Cricket from the coverage. I like the push up greens, the meandering stream - the bunkers are very well positioned.


From the routing in Dr. B's links there seems to be extra holes??