Disposable greens

[jeffwarne]

Does any course redo/regrass their greens as often as TPC?


From dartboards on Thursday ....to silly on Saturday...to who knows on Sunday....to blown up and regrassed with the latest and greatest next week.


Whatever happened to simply maintaining the grass?rather than constantly tweaking, manipulating, replacing , super stimping, and whatever else they've done this week and in the past.


Random thoughts


6 hour rounds-brought to you by stupid speeds-coming soon to a golf course near you.


What's the opposite of sustainable?


Wouldn't it be cool to see dead greens with a lot less expense and effort?


Is there someone out there devising a way to increase green speed even more?

[Peter Pallotta]

More random thoughts:

As the secret tour pro says about playing at the home office, 300 guys in suits running around thinking they're your boss.
That's 300 salaries to pay, to 300 guys who all want to get paid more, so desperate for the idea that'll get noticed
Low interest rates, so 300 bigger houses to buy, trying to keep up with the USGA blue bloods and private club members
Mostly: emptiness and ennui and gnawing meaninglessness takes many forms -- for those less
fortunate, alcohol and drugs and violence, for the eggheads global transformation, and for the middle class golf industry type with aspirations to be Tim Finchem new grass and faster greens, every year

[Joe Hancock]

Jeff

University studies in the turfgrass world focus on genetic engineering and chemistry. Therein lies the answers to all our problems.

Why? "There's no money in doing less."

[Tom_Doak]

Does any course redo/regrass their greens as often as TPC?

Jeff:


It's part of the tradition there.


When they opened the course there was an out-of-town membership available for (IIRC) $100.  At the suggestion of Deane Beman [one of the many people in golf I was corresponding with during Cornell winters], I joined, and played the course on four or five separate occasions between when it opened in 1981 and 1986.  Counting all the contouring changes to the greens [some of which happened before the first tournament], and the first re-grassing to bentgrass, I counted that I had putted on 55 or 56 different surfaces in my time as a member!


The bottom line is that the Sawgrass is the home of the PGA Tour, and the executives of the Tour want it seen as "cutting edge."  So you have a bunch of powerful guys who aren't experts in turf management making one change after another.  I'm sure they think, Augusta changes stuff every year, why can't we?

[Mike_Young]

Jeff,
Yes.  Someone somewhere is trying to make greens faster....while you are thinking about it check out   www.sweepnfill.com  this simple brush may be the best machine I have seen for greens and approaches and tees in a long time.  It actually allows a faster speed a a higher height of cut.  My new favorite toy....

[BCowan]

Mike,

    Some of my favorite fixes are mechanical. Drill and fill too. 

Joe,

   Let's not stereotype.  There has been great advances in turf grass enabling keepers to sleep better at night.  I love how the universities are right about global warming yet we criticize science in turf grass.  Is that not counter dicting?

[jeffwarne]

  I love how the universities are right about global warming yet we criticize science in turf grass.  Is that not counter dicting?

Did Ben just invent a new word or does North Carolina need another new law?

[Greg Chambers]

Peter.....I hope you don't think alcohol and drugs haven't been a stimuli to great ideas re turf management


Mike...nice plug

[Mike_Young]

Greg,
Are you involved with the sweep n fill dudes?

[Kalen Braley]

Mike,

    Some of my favorite fixes are mechanical. Drill and fill too. 

Joe,

   Let's not stereotype.  There has been great advances in turf grass enabling keepers to sleep better at night.  I love how the universities are right about global warming yet we criticize science in turf grass.  Is that not counter dicting?

Ben,

I suspect most in this forum have serious doubts about Global Warming as well.

As for the constant tinkering and such, I would have thought that would happen on some type of practice area, where they could have pros hit balls to it, chip to it, and putt on it.... not on an actual golf course.  I for one think its absurd how much they waste on something that is more than good enough for 99.9% of courses.

[Andrew Buck]

These guys are good ... Jason Day has 32 putts with a 4 putt the least comfortable he's ever been on with over the top greens ... I've had a handicap between +1 and 2 for years and probably have 32 or fewer putts 20% of the time on relatively easy greens.

[Tom_Doak]

These guys are good ... Jason Day has 32 putts with a 4 putt the least comfortable he's ever been on with over the top greens ... I've had a handicap between +1 and 2 for years and probably have 32 or fewer putts 20% of the time on relatively easy greens.

Putting is a lot of the difference between a +1 and a +6 or +7.  You can't make up that many strokes tee to green!

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Another perfect case for artificial greens - who can sanely argue against them?

[Jon Wiggett]

"There's no money in doing less."

Probably the truest reason as to why golf has gone down the insane and self destructive road of ever higher stimping greens and longer golf balls.


Jon

[BCowan]

Does any course redo/regrass their greens as often as TPC?


From dartboards on Thursday ....to silly on Saturday...to who knows on Sunday....to blown up and regrassed with the latest and greatest next week.


Whatever happened to simply maintaining the grass?rather than constantly tweaking, manipulating, replacing , super stimping, and whatever else they've done this week and in the past.


Random thoughts


6 hour rounds-brought to you by stupid speeds-coming soon to a golf course near you.


What's the opposite of sustainable?


Wouldn't it be cool to see dead greens with a lot less expense and effort?


Is there someone out there devising a way to increase green speed even more?

I agree with everything you stated. The model was flawed since day one at TPC.  I turned this on yest to asst in my nap. I woke up to see some clown chest bump his caddie. TV then went off 

[David_Tepper]

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2016/5/14/elephant-in-the-room-files-green-speed-push-blows-up-again.html

[jeffwarne]

I got it.


Stimp them at 20


Players will then evolve to the point where they drive all 18 greens (from physical conditioning of course-not equipment)
The real skill of course will be ONLY hitting a SW 180 to keep it on the island green....


and they can average 3 putts per green.


Agronomists will be happy,(or at least turf suppliers-both real and artificial)
Supers will be rock stars
Putting teachers will be busy
Architects and deshapers will be busy.
Golf coverage won't change as they only show putting anyway and there will be plenty of it


Win-win

[BCowan]

Jeff,

    "It takes patience to be a happy golfer"

[Martin Lehmann]

Jeff,
Yes.  Someone somewhere is trying to make greens faster....while you are thinking about it check out   www.sweepnfill.com  this simple brush may be the best machine I have seen for greens and approaches and tees in a long time.  It actually allows a faster speed a a higher height of cut.  My new favorite toy....

We bought such a brush at our golf course two years ago. It works very well. Especially for filling holes with sand quickly and effectively after aeration. Effect on green speed is limited though. We aim at healthy grass and sustainability. In our Northern European climate, we use a traditional mixture of fescue and colonial bent on our greens. Height of cut is 5mm. With frequent rolling and top dressing we achieve green speeds around 8.5. Snail's pace for the pros, but our members are happy.

[Kalen Braley]

Is it just my TV, or have those greens turned a copper/tan color.  Can't say I've ever seen greens with that color, and I know I've never seen Brown greens with Green Fairways...its always visa versa as per Open courses.

[BCrosby]

Mike -


We bought that machine at Cherokee. Lives up to the hype.


Bob

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Jeff,
Yes.  Someone somewhere is trying to make greens faster....while you are thinking about it check out   www.sweepnfill.com  this simple brush may be the best machine I have seen for greens and approaches and tees in a long time.  It actually allows a faster speed a a higher height of cut.  My new favorite toy....

We bought such a brush at our golf course two years ago. It works very well. Especially for filling holes with sand quickly and effectively after aeration. Effect on green speed is limited though. We aim at healthy grass and sustainability. In our Northern European climate, we use a traditional mixture of fescue and colonial bent on our greens. Height of cut is 5mm. With frequent rolling and top dressing we achieve green speeds around 8.5. Snail's pace for the pros, but our members are happy.

Ditto.  It's a really good product, however it does nothing for greens speed on it's own. 

[SB]

Jeff,
Yes.  Someone somewhere is trying to make greens faster....while you are thinking about it check out   www.sweepnfill.com  this simple brush may be the best machine I have seen for greens and approaches and tees in a long time.  It actually allows a faster speed a a higher height of cut.  My new favorite toy....

Awesome for aerification.  Fills holes perfectly. 

[Mike_Young]

Jeff,
Yes.  Someone somewhere is trying to make greens faster....while you are thinking about it check out   www.sweepnfill.com  this simple brush may be the best machine I have seen for greens and approaches and tees in a long time.  It actually allows a faster speed a a higher height of cut.  My new favorite toy....

We bought such a brush at our golf course two years ago. It works very well. Especially for filling holes with sand quickly and effectively after aeration. Effect on green speed is limited though. We aim at healthy grass and sustainability. In our Northern European climate, we use a traditional mixture of fescue and colonial bent on our greens. Height of cut is 5mm. With frequent rolling and top dressing we achieve green speeds around 8.5. Snail's pace for the pros, but our members are happy.

Ditto.  It's a really good product, however it does nothing for greens speed on it's own.

On ultradwarf we brush the greens in circles ahead of mowing and it does increase speed vs. not doing so and it also helps remove grain...